Anti-homosexual marriage law ; unconstitutional?
#151
08-30-2012, 05:04 PM
One thing lacking from the "scientific" argument that points out physical attributes is our ability to reason. Call it what you will, but either by God's design or if you go that route, by clawing our way to the top of the evolutionary heap, we have abilities that animals have in very limited quantities at the very best if at all. We're either a freak accident where the chemicals magically united in just the right way, on just the right planet, with the star at just the right distance, and a planet with just the right ingredients to sustain life, or we are created.
I like to think of it this way. Take something as simple as a washer from a hardware store and say, "What are the chances of this appearing out of nowhere?". You would say, "There is no chance or the chances are so phenomenally small that it just would not happen." It was created by a man or woman. We are so much more complex than a simple washer. It takes more blind faith in my mind to believe we are just an accident of nature.
It's this ability to reason and have a conscience that tells us some things are wrong and some things are right that separates us from other animals. There is good and bad.
I like to think of it this way. Take something as simple as a washer from a hardware store and say, "What are the chances of this appearing out of nowhere?". You would say, "There is no chance or the chances are so phenomenally small that it just would not happen." It was created by a man or woman. We are so much more complex than a simple washer. It takes more blind faith in my mind to believe we are just an accident of nature.
It's this ability to reason and have a conscience that tells us some things are wrong and some things are right that separates us from other animals. There is good and bad.
I wasn't using science to confirm or deny the existence of god-
more of an explanation that these circumstances are natural & present in life, be it that of a human or an animal-
our frontal lobe is about the only thing that separates us from our closest primates. The genetic difference between us and a chimp is so small- it's mind boggling-
the illusion of magic and mystery starts to disappear once the student understands the chemistry behind the organism.
One can look at a nebula in amazement- at its beauty and wonder… but it wasn’t always a nebula- it started as dust and through the laws of physics it became a beautiful nebula.
What are those “laws of physics” that govern those particles you ask??? That’s where most people split- creationists turn to religion to find answers; scientists turn to quantum mechanics and super string in the search for answers. And yes, many scientists are religious also. What would happen if we found another planet like ours with life on it? How would that change your views? What if the organisms on that planet has completly conflicting beliefs that were not religious in nature?
Personally- I don’t think using “complexity” as leverage in the argument to support the “existence of god” debate is a good one. As things are only as complex as they need to be.
the human organism evolves on a daily basis to adapt to its environment- like it has since the beginning. The current human model wasn’t always this complex- it evolved to be so through mutations & chemistry.
Science & medicine can create a living human being in a laboratory. We have mapped out the human genome- we have identified all 25,000 genes in human DNA, we have determined the sequences of the three billion chemical base pairs that make up human DNA!!!
fifty years ago the population looked at the human anatomy an saw magic, and wondered how such an organism could come to be… in 2012, we now know. We have deconstructed the human organism and can explain how it works.
I’d like to point out… I was raised catholic, Sunday school- baptized, communion & confirmation… church every Sunday, confessed my sins at the end of every day before I slept and said grace before every Sunday dinner. There was a cross of Christ hanging on my wall until the day I moved out.
As I got older, I began to question things- and to this day I struggle with those questions-and not having the answers. I’ve read the bible, I’ve read books on the sea-scrolls, I have umpteen books on interpreting god’s word… I also have a dozen books on quantum physics, biology and chemistry- I’m still “god fearing” but I still have questions unanswered that keep me from being 100% confident in my faith.
I don’t have the answers to everything around me, but I’m not ready to believe 100% that just because I can’t explain it, god must’ve created it. I keep an open mind and consider everything that comes my way- be it science or religion.
Now I have to go out to my shed and finish making some "boom boom" for this weekends BBQ
(some of you know what I mean 
)
#152
08-30-2012, 05:14 PM
Super Moderator
Well, golly JimBob!
Well, golly JimBob!
My point was simply, we are reasoning. We declare things good or bad either based on God's moral code or somehow, some other moral code. Animals don't have any kind of moral code. They act on instinct for the most part and some learned behaviors. To use the biological science only in the physical realm takes a large part of our humanity out of the equation and simply says, "Because we are animals we can act like them." In the context of the conversation, that would include homosexuality as being legitimate, sociologically speaking, as heterosexual marriage because there are examples of unusual behavior in nature. It argues we are simply physical and no more than an animal. The conclusion is that we can act in the way animals act even if it is unusual and abnormal.
#153
08-30-2012, 07:30 PM
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It pains me to say this... After reading freebirds post and a conversation with a different member. Iam going to retract my statement about having no respect for you. Sacrifice commands respect....
#154
08-30-2012, 08:32 PM
My point was simply, we are reasoning. We declare things good or bad either based on God's moral code or somehow, some other moral code. Animals don't have any kind of moral code. They act on instinct for the most part and some learned behaviors. To use the biological science only in the physical realm takes a large part of our humanity out of the equation and simply says, "Because we are animals we can act like them." In the context of the conversation, that would include homosexuality as being legitimate, sociologically speaking, as heterosexual marriage because there are examples of unusual behavior in nature. It argues we are simply physical and no more than an animal. The conclusion is that we can act in the way animals act even if it is unusual and abnormal.
you may know this already,
but all our reasoning and logic thought takes place in the newest part of our brain- the frontal lobes. It’s the only thing that differentiates animals and early hominids with us homo-sapiens. The fronts of our skulls are much larger to house this new large amount of gray matter- and continues to grow with every new generation of humans… Personality, emotions, problem solving, reasoning and planning, all of it lives in the frontal lobes. This is where sophisticated functions are managed.
When a human suffers damage to his frontal lobes- his cognitive functions also suffer- damage to the frontal lobe will turn a genius into a vegetable (like a primate.) Did you know that a chimpanzee is more closely related to a human then to a gorilla? The DNA in chimps & modern humans are 98 - 99% identical!!!
Even more interesting is the neocortex (cerebrum) which is only found in select mammals (like dolphins.) It’s believed the neocortex is a recently evolved structure that is associated with higher information processing-
So- either god isn't finished creating us, or the human organism is on its own path of evolution.
I can't tell you how many nights I lay in bed wishing I had never picked up a biology or physics book- it only made me ask more questions and want to go deeper- and the deeper I dug, the more confusing it got, and the more questions I had- and the more nights I lay awake in bed thinking- trying to figure out how it all comes together- eventually asking yourself... what's the purpose. It's a miserable way to live, and it's a question I ask myself everyday.
think my shrink is having a blast with me?
#155
08-30-2012, 08:39 PM
#156
08-30-2012, 08:54 PM
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I got ya
you may know this already,
but all our reasoning and logic thought takes place in the newest part of our brain- the frontal lobes. It’s the only thing that differentiates animals and early hominids with us homo-sapiens. The fronts of our skulls are much larger to house this new large amount of gray matter- and continues to grow with every new generation of humans… Personality, emotions, problem solving, reasoning and planning, all of it lives in the frontal lobes. This is where sophisticated functions are managed.
When a human suffers damage to his frontal lobes- his cognitive functions also suffer- damage to the frontal lobe will turn a genius into a vegetable (like a primate.) Did you know that a chimpanzee is more closely related to a human then to a gorilla? The DNA in chimps & modern humans are 98 - 99% identical!!!
Even more interesting is the neocortex (cerebrum) which is only found in select mammals (like dolphins.) It’s believed the neocortex is a recently evolved structure that is associated with higher information processing-
So- either god isn't finished creating us, or the human organism is on its own path of evolution.
I can't tell you how many nights I lay in bed wishing I had never picked up a biology or physics book- it only made me ask more questions and want to go deeper- and the deeper I dug, the more confusing it got, and the more questions I had- and the more nights I lay awake in bed thinking- trying to figure out how it all comes together- eventually asking yourself... what's the purpose. It's a miserable way to live, and it's a question I ask myself everyday.
think my shrink is having a blast with me?
you may know this already,
but all our reasoning and logic thought takes place in the newest part of our brain- the frontal lobes. It’s the only thing that differentiates animals and early hominids with us homo-sapiens. The fronts of our skulls are much larger to house this new large amount of gray matter- and continues to grow with every new generation of humans… Personality, emotions, problem solving, reasoning and planning, all of it lives in the frontal lobes. This is where sophisticated functions are managed.
When a human suffers damage to his frontal lobes- his cognitive functions also suffer- damage to the frontal lobe will turn a genius into a vegetable (like a primate.) Did you know that a chimpanzee is more closely related to a human then to a gorilla? The DNA in chimps & modern humans are 98 - 99% identical!!!
Even more interesting is the neocortex (cerebrum) which is only found in select mammals (like dolphins.) It’s believed the neocortex is a recently evolved structure that is associated with higher information processing-
So- either god isn't finished creating us, or the human organism is on its own path of evolution.
I can't tell you how many nights I lay in bed wishing I had never picked up a biology or physics book- it only made me ask more questions and want to go deeper- and the deeper I dug, the more confusing it got, and the more questions I had- and the more nights I lay awake in bed thinking- trying to figure out how it all comes together- eventually asking yourself... what's the purpose. It's a miserable way to live, and it's a question I ask myself everyday.
think my shrink is having a blast with me?
I wish I was joking.
#157
08-30-2012, 09:18 PM
I've played with mercury before...
mercury is a fantastic high explosive component
with only two other easily obtained components......... and a little patience
#158
08-30-2012, 09:27 PM
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I still have the cool stuff you gave me (thanks). You happy with the walls? If not NC for you!
Edit.
I wasnt joking when I told you I almost fell the balcony... A heads up would of been nice.
#159
08-30-2012, 10:37 PM
Pirate Biker
Limping Rider!
Limping Rider!
I don't know about every state that "legalized" homosexual marriage but in Massachusetts, and Vermont it was done through the courts. In Massachusetts we have initiative petition rights where the citizens can put a question on the ballot if they get enough votes. Funny how the courts blocked this when there was a great citizen led petition drive that got over double the signatures needed to get it on the ballot.
Like I said, every state that has "legalized" it through politicians and then has had a public vote on it, it has been over turned by public vote. Then the majority of the courts have then over turned the vote of the people.
#160
08-30-2012, 10:38 PM
Pirate Biker
Limping Rider!
Limping Rider!