Didn't realize I was flaming. If I were homosexual, wouldn't calling me unnatural be considered flaming?

There is an entire school of thought that the founding fathers were deists instead of Christians. The only thing I was trying to say with the founding fathers argument was that they were not Christians, and this is not a "Christian nation". I may have conveyed that poorly, and for that I apologize.

 

we understood clearly what you were saying thats why we were arguing with you.

 

Well all that Moose's post proved was that they referenced God, which is inline with my argument. They never said Jesus, or any other Christian God.

 

Maybe where you're at but here you don't place your hand on a bible or swear to god. You do swear or affirm. Period.

 

I believe before anyone gives a statement in a court of law- they are asked by the judge "Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god"
or something like that.

 

But that flies in the face of their very public confessions of Christ being their God. Over and over again.

To say that the majority of the Founding Fathers were not Christians with deep rooted faith (faith that makes me look like a wimp in comparison) is revisionist at best. Same with calling homosexual marriage normal, or natural. It's neither. It's a perversion. That is to say the warping of a norm.

 

Quick example.
Benjamin Franklin
Motion for Prayers in the Constitutional Convention — 1787

And have we now forgotten that powerful Friend? or do we imagine we no longer need its assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time; and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this Truth, that God governs in the Affairs of Men. And if a Sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?

My note: A sparrow cannot fall to the ground... Is a quote from Matthew 10:29. Jesus is speaking.

Benjamin Franklin
Poor Richards Almanack — 1743

How many observe Christ's birth-day! How few, his precepts! O! 'tis easier to keep Holidays than Commandments.

John Jay
letter to Peter Augustus Jay — 1784

The Bible is the best of all books, for it is the word of God and teaches us the way to be happy in this world and in the next. Continue therefore to read it and to regulate your life by its precepts.

My note: The Word of God is only called the Bible in a Christian context.

George Washington
1st U.S. President

"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."

John Adams
2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."

"The general principles, on which the Fathers achieved independence, were the only Principles in which that beautiful Assembly of young Gentlemen could Unite, and these Principles only could be intended by them in their address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general Principles? I answer, the general Principles of Christianity, in which all these Sects were United: And the general Principles of English and American Liberty, in which all those young Men United, and which had United all Parties in America, in Majorities sufficient to assert and maintain her Independence.

"Now I will avow, that I then believe, and now believe, that those general Principles of Christianity, are as eternal and immutable, as the Existence and Attributes of God; and that those Principles of Liberty, are as unalterable as human Nature and our terrestrial, mundane System."

I could go on and on....

 

They used to say that but the last time I was in court it was something like "Do you swear or affirm your testimony is the truth". No "So help me god" or anything like that.

 

In a letter to John Adams, Jefferson wrote "To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, God, are immaterial is to say they are nothings, or that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise".

In Notes on the State of Virginia, he said of this religion, "There is not one redeeming feature in our superstition of Christianity. It has made one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites"

Dr. Moncure D. Conway, who was once employed to edit a volume of Washington's letters, wrote an article entitled "The Religion of Washington," from which Remsberg quoted the following

 

Its sad that our children have to fight and die so that people like lolumad have freedom and religious beliefs.