Guys,

We are already teaching kids on whatever (reasonable) machine they bring to class here in Michigan.

What I have been hollering about for some time now is that we have to force groups like the ATVA to PUBLICLY declare everything that they believe in! (helmets, specific training method, cc requirements, etc.)

what you have now is these national groups who are 'supposed' to be fighting for us............turning in vague petitions to the CPSC that define absolutely NOTHING about what we all should be united on!

What if they got more specific and took A STAND on straightening some of these idots out who don't like 'rules'................and do it in each and every state where they can be found?

Why we are at a standstill on safety in relation to these 'national' clubs:

#1) If they solve these problems 'right away' on safety........somebody at a non-profit is not 'needed' anymore and is out of a part-time job.

and

"#2"......if you start getting on states like West Virginia with absolutely 'no program' (and a bunch of dead kids) or Tennessee; where double up with no helmets is a way of life.............how much membership money will you get out of these people when you use your national newsletter to demand that they start having some "come to Jesus meetings" on the BASIC tenants of safety?

Nobody wants to challenge these guys and I just got kicked off TWO national forums for being the first one to ever 'dare' ask them what they are fighting for!!!

Heck, they even had one of their guys who is a very active member (and moderator)...............shut down a topic because it mentioned somebody getting hurt on an atv!!! ('not good for the sport'......).

These guys have absolutely no one to answer to and are milking it out for all it's worth for the sake of not 'upsetting anyone'...............well, I'm here to tell you that we have a lot of people who need these national organizations to tell them in no uncertain terms that they will be left behind if they don't shape up.

 

That's it, Blackballed, you're banned from this forum forever ! Ok, just kidding,just wanted you to feel at home!!
Very good post,I totally agree with you. It's about time we show the whole country that we as riders and owners of the "evil ATVs" that we are capable of policeing our own ranks, mandating safety training on our terms, and setting an example for the future riders out there. These radical "safety" or "environmentalist" groups who feel they need to dictate how, when and what we ride need to see that we can organize and set up responsible, safe training facilities for young or inexperienced riders without being led by the nose by them or any other government groups. Only by showing a genuine interest in producing safe, law abiding riders can we start to get some of them off our backs. There will always be the few who will rant against us no matter what we do, but as a well organized system, we would be able to handle them.

 

What moron wrote that article? I didn't know atvs wieghed 1,500LBS.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

 

95 wolv,

Thank you for what has got to be one of the better replies I've witnessed (enjoyed the part about being 'banned again', also!).

There are very few people out there (and I really hate to admit this) who can 'hold their own' with some of these guys attempting to brush the more 'seedy' aspects of our sport, under the table. These guys know that the intelligence level isn't really where it should be........ and that's when you get people standing around in agreement when forum sites delete references to atv accidents 'for your own good and the good of our sport'...................

I'm sorry guys, but when you get booted for questioning things like this and 'dare' to question the almighty American Motorcycle Association (ATVA) or the NOHVCC???

I'm going back to making our local YOUTH training facility and program as good as it can possibly be (albeit one kid at a time). Sad to say, but I think these kids need to be exposed to another point of view that I have yet to witness very much in their parents or relations [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

Don't be afraid to ASK QUESTIONS, people!...............and especially don't you let these local clubs and national associations blow you off because only 'they' know what's best for the rest of us (especially when they would just as soon keep their mouth shut when an issue is supposedly 'controversial' and may affect 'potential memberships')

No, STANDING UP FOR SOMETHING isn't the 'politically correct' way to operate.................but wouldn't you rather make sure that the people you are fighting with are all on the same page and do this by simply demanding that a platform be 'published' and added to when necessary? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Don't allow some of these non-profits to let these safety issues be milked out to the point where the govt. finally figures out that nothing will ever be done until THEY do it!

And then we blame 'the feds' for making Billy Bob and his drinking buddies learn about fines, impoundment and 'religion'......... the hard way?
Something tells me that some of these idiots would've appreciated a chance to hear 'the gospel' preached by some of their very own riding brothers...............and definitely before the government came in and cracked the entire Bible right over their heads...........................

 

Wow, some really great facts and opinions. I give the "Pinko Commie" Star and Tribune my views every state fair. Ever notice lately how all the St Paul Pioneer Press papers are sold out, and there are still stacks of the Star and Trib. People are finally wising up.

 

From that article:
This is wrong. Lets be quick to point the finger at someone else when YOU are the one letting your son ride the ATV in the first place. This is part of why our sport if under so much pressure. Because so many parents refuse to take responsibility and do what is right for their kids. Combine that with the idiots that ride without helmets, or while drunk or high.

 

You know, I bet the same group of people that hate ATVs are the same people that hate guns, hug trees and are the greenpeace, pollution freaks, SUV-hatin' bunch that gets shuttled around in their LIMOs - getting FAR LESS gas mileage than ANY SUV on the planet. They preach clean air, and no SUVs but what about their LIMOs? Hows 5-8mpg sound? Yeah, they are a hypocryte to their own cause.
And they get out of their LIMOs with...WHAT - BODYGUARDS that carry..WHAT... GUNS!!! Oh yeah, they want protection for themselves...But they think law abiding citizens are a danger to society and shouldnt have guns.
Before every totalitarian (butthole) goverment in history, the peoples weapons and rights were slowly taken from them. Look at Stalin (USSR), Hitler (Germany), Hussein (Iraq). They passed laws and stirpped the people of their guns so no resistance would be had. I'm not saying we are on the verge of that.
But we should all ban together and not let them get quads like they got 3 wheelers. We need to BAN TOGETHER rather than GET BANNED. Get in a club, join the ATVA empire and anything else you can. With 700,000 NEW ATVs sold last year, we are a voice FAR greater than motorcyclists (more killed/hurt per year than ATVs) and dirtbikes (ditto). Let's rise up and be heard and NOT let them take our dam riding land or our ATVs away!

The CPSC (the people that got 3wheelers banned) wants to holler ATVs are dangerous..blah blah blah. Well, I halfway agree with them. There should be more training on ATVs- but dont ban them because some people were idiots and got hurt. A car could hurt you. I bet its safe to say that cars kill more people and hurt more people than ATVs. So lets ban cars!!! THey hurt people. They must be banned! I cut myself on paper.. Lets ban paper!!! I got ink in my mouth the other day... Lets BAN INK and INK pens!!! Screw them - we dont need pens!!!!!! Anything can be a target for being banned these days. Its unjust and its bigshot lawfirms that want to make a name for themselves who are helping them screw us over.

Now im for reducing pollution for all (not by taking cars or SUVs away) and restricting guns to CRIMINALS, but not to good citizens. I think ATV training should be a MUST for inexperienced riders. I had the priveledge of growing up around motorcycles, 3wheelers, dirtbikes and quads- so i had family to teach me how to ride. But others may not have had that. The parents and dealers should take a little bit more responsibilty in ATV training. Even issue licenses if thats what it takes. That would cut down on alot of stupid crap and make people better riders. It is sad that a little kid didnt know what he was doing and got killed. But this accident was the parents' fault for not making sure he didnt get on it. And how did he start it, or was it running? Did they teach him how to start it? Big mistake. These people **** me off. They want to drag ATVs thru the mud and not want to take responsiblilty. They want someone else to blame. They dont need to be suing anybody but themselves for negligence. On another note, consider a similar case where a parent leaves their little kid in a car that is running unattended? What do you think the ruling would be in a case like that? NO judge will rule in favor of the parents over the car manufacturer. I dont know of any because its unheard of. The problem is people think ATVs are toys, but they are motorized vehicles and like anything else, need to be respected and operated properly. They are fun, but they can be dangerous, like anything else, if used improperly.

 

You might be right there, Sean...........but who is putting the pressure on the people you refer to?

I don't see it on the atv forums (I have been kicked off several of them for suggesting that the very behavior you describe should be in no ways tolerated) and I sure as heck don't see it in our national organizations beyond a 'mission statement' that quickly gets modfied depending on what region is being talked to! Ever see any radical thoughts in the ATVA news about fining the heck out of bad parents or funding legislation and enforcement that cracks down on drunk hillbilles up in the mountains?

I also hear a lot of talk about this "parental responsibility" when it comes to our sport.....................sorry, but I'm not willing to keep track of how every parent in this country parents their child..................I just want groups like the ATVA to inform parents that THEY are working hard to make the penalties for NOT DOING SO much HARSHER!!!............ and also that they (the ATVA) considers 'enforcement' a LOT more important than any membership dues they might collect from toning their act down on the very issues that are sinking us.

I'm not sure it's the PARENTS we have to worry about (why complain about something we are obviously not willing to control?)....................but how about the people who are controlling the conversations on these matters and are obviously unwilling to just call the problems in our sport for what they are and who it is EXACTLY amonst us, who is causing them?

I'm really sick of this "it's the parents" stuff...........especially when very few seem willing to PUBLICLY raise money on the law enforcement and I.D. program side of the issue; which is the ONLY way a good share of them will ever get the message.

Let's fight the people at Hatfield McCoy who are (privately) against one of the greatest systems ever built and its (gasp!) "rules/fees"....... or how about any yahoo that rides Windrock and doesn't look with disgust at Tennessee's massive shining example of two-up, helmetless behavior?!.

Meanwhile, let's take on the "refusal to take responsibility" you speak of; by fighting for stronger penalties (like forfeiture and sale) that would get some of these idiots out of the sport for good and any many others suddenly thinking about what they are doing, one 'heck of a lot' more. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

But then again, atving is by far the most 'hipocritical' organized sport; to ever grace this planet!