Do both of these system have some sort of bindless joint system that does not use ball joints. I no the protraxx does, its called a t-pin design but you have to purchase the spindles too. what about the lobo 2 kits, do they just have long travel or long travel bindless. I've heard the prtraxx bindless can alow up to 19 inches of travel (i've heard 16 too) but what about the Lobo 2, how much can it allow for?. If any body nows what the specifactions are and how they work it would be greatley appreciated. thanks

 

The lobo front end does not use the t-pin design. I know the houser long travel front can use 19 inche shocks and is a lot cheaper then both of those, just a thought.
-Jacob-

 

The shocks are 19 3/8" long that typically are used with ProTrax, Houser long travel, Walsh, Roll Design Lobo, Lone Star, Gibson long travel, etc. "long travel" front ends, 16 3/8" long is the standard length for Honda 400EX or 250R. Now that is how long the shock is from eye to eye, not the over all travel. Most do advertise up to 16" of travel but that all depends on what shocks you use, and usually in Moto cross you do not use them with that much travel.




Here some spec's:


COMPLETE LAEGER PRO-TRAX SUSPENSION KIT
T-pin front end consists of Spindle uprights from Billet Aluminum, 4340 Heat treated spindle shafts, Revolutionary bind-free pivots for the replacement of ball joints, 4130 Chromoly arms with bottom A-arm triple braced for strength, Travel up to 16" depending on length of shocks used. Kit Includes: Spindles, A-Arms, Tie Rods, and Steering Stem. Kit is custom built to your specific needs. Listed price is reference only. $2117.50






LOBO II front end package
TRX250R/400EX/Raptor- Lobo Derived long travel control arms, Camber and Caster adjustable top pivots includes: Ball Joints, 17-4 Stainless Steel Tie Rods, PTFE Composite Bearings, & Pivot Pins Custom Axis Dampners: Compression Adjustable, Triple Rate, with Remote Reservoirs.
TRX250R…, TRX400EX…, Raptor… $2495.99
****TRX250R will fit stock chassis or any aftermarket chassis with stock dimensions

Banshee -Lobo Technology Long Travel Control Arms
*Camber and Castor Adjustable
*Custom Axis Dampners
*Compression Adjustable Dual Rate, Remote Resevoirs
*Package includes Ball Joints, 4130 Tie Rods & Needle Pivot Bearings

Banshee……$2495.99

***chrome for a-arms is 120.00 additional for uppers and 140.00 additional for lowers.







Houser Racing Long Travel A-Arms

The lower ball joint is sealed.

A stainless steel disk seals the bottom side while a rubber boot seals the top. A grease zirk is standard.

The upper ball joint uses a Teflon liner which does not require lubrication. This will provide longer life on an unsealed ball joint.

Grease zirks are provided for A-Arm frame bearings.

Ball joints are replaceable.

All components are made from chromoly steel and are TIG welded.

TT sway bar mount is an option. This is located straight in line with
shock absorber to provide the truest force distribution.

Brake line mounting is standard.

Sizes: Honda 400EX (+2", +0&quot (+0",+0) Honda 250R (+2", +1&quot

Other sizes will be available as requested

$800 Standard Unit

+$75 Top A-Arms chromed

+$35 TT Sway Bar Mounting Brackets

Standard Colors are Hammertone Gray, Black Silvervein, Gloss Red






Gibson

Gibson products are a new line of high performance, aftermarket chassis components.

a-arms

These a-arms are long travel and designed to give maximum ground clearance.

-camber & caster adjustable

-uses spherical bearings & kingpins instead of ball joint to get maximum travel w/o binding

-eliminates all bump steer

-available for TRX250r, 400ex, Banshee, Cannondale's , and Raptor for mx and x-country
coming soon

-available with Custom Axis, Tcs or Elka shocks

-stainless steel tie rods

-uses a custom 19" shock

-TRX250R sets will fit stock, Lonestar, Laeger, Arens or any other stock geometry frame

-TRX250R will require use of 400EX Spindles

- Banshee and Raptor does not require reaming of spindles

- Sold as a complete set up with your choice of Custom Axis, TCS, or Elka Shocks

- Complete with all bushings and hardware

A-ARM PACKAGES

CUSTOM AXIS TRIPLE RATE
DUAL ADJUST $2425.00

CUSTOM AXIS TRIPLE RATE
COMP ADJUST $2275.00

TCS COMP ADJUST $1950.00

ELKA COMP ADJUST $1920.00



Also Lone star now has no bind spindles they call the "Extreme Outlaw Spindles" that are like the ProTrax's have.

 

so are you saying that say the houser long travel system only allows for 16 while protrax allows for 19. and that the stockers are 16 too. I don't understand the "16 3/8" long is the standard length for Honda 400EX or 250R." so does that mean the houser system does not allow for anymore travel then stock? or is that just the legth of the actual shock? Because i curently have roll design (standard non lobo) +2+1 a arms with works triple rates. will the houser type system allow for more travel? and the protrax type allow for even more.?

 

The 19 3/8" and 16 3/8" is that just the length of the actual shock, from the center of your top bolt to the center of the bottom bolt when the shock is fully extended. All of the arm's I listed above use a 19 3/8" long shock, measured end to end (not shaft travel), the reason for this is it gives a different leverage curve.



Here are some Custom Axis FAQ's

1-Which is better for MX for the 400EX; dual rate comp adjust rear or single rate dual adjust rear?

The dual rate/comp adjust works better for MX and XC.
The 400EX stock rear suspension, with the stock rear shock, yields just over 8" of wheel travel. That's actual points on the computer, not magazine copy.
The Axis 20-104, the first 400EX rear shock mfg'd by Custom Axis, gets you an additional 1" of up travel over stock, but after further
testing/development, it became apparent that 9" was still not enough travel. Taking the rebound adjuster out, an additional .75" of up travel was gained and in doing so it allowed fitement of a dual spring setup which further enhanced the suspension progression. This helped to get the ride height down by allowing more sag yet still allowing a fair amount of up travel left so the shock doesn't bottom out too soon.

Compared to the 250R, the 400EX has a static swing arm angle of 28 degree verses 25 degrees, and a higher seat height with relationship to the footpegs. This is why the 400EX is so tall in it's stock form and needs a fair amount of sag to establish a desirable ride height. Adding length to the stock swing arm also has some points to consider. Because of the 28 degree stock swing arm angle, an inch over swing arm will raise the ride height at static and encourage the rear end to come up under braking. The Axis 20-104E or the 20-105E rear shock would be recommended for this application. "E's" have a .375" shorter E/E with a .250" shorter compressed length. This shorter length will keep the ride height the same as it would with a stock length shock/stock arm and will help keep the rear end from coming up as bad under braking. It also has a bit more up travel to help ease the kick from bottoming with the lighter rear end due to the extended length arm.

2-Which is better for the front of 400EX & 250R triple rate comp adjust or dual rate dual adjust?

This depends on the application, with regards to a-arms width and rear
suspension travel. The dual rate shocks can be used for both stock width and extended width. The triple rate shocks were designed to work with extended a-arms only.

A little on the 400EX a-arm leverage or motion ratio. The motion ratio on the stock arm is about 1.91:1, a +2 arm is about 2.20:1, and a +3 is about 2.34:1. If you take the shaft travel multiplied by the motion ratio you will get vertical wheel travel. Example, Axis front shocks for the 400EX have 4.75" of shaft travel. 4.75" x 1.91(stock) = 9.01", 4.75 x 2.20(+2 arm) = 10.45", etc. The suspension using extended a-arms with the stock geometry, will obviously need more sag to establish the same ride height. It will also need more final poundage to prevent bottoming because of the added leverage. This means that you will need an overall spring curve that is more progressive than you do for a stock arm. Multi spring stacks,
either dual rate, triple, etc., is a common way to build a desired
progression. (It is actually a bit more complicated that this with a number of other variables to consider, but for the sake of simplicity we will keep it simple). Ideally you want to build a progression that has transition points, (where the spring rate changes from one rate to the next), that are very subtle if noticeable at all. The suspension should not transmit abrupt impulses to the chassis/rider that would have an effect on chassis dynamics or rider fatigue. But, because of hardware limitations, stock geometry suspension points, spring travel limitations, shock hardware limitations, etc., the optimum may not be attainable. Also, there are circumstances where the progression is so mild, that there is no significant gain to having a triple rate over a dual rate(rider would have a hard time telling the difference). Such is the case with running triple rates on a stock arm.

Regarding which shock to run for MX, the dual rate/dual adjust or triple rate/comp-adjust, that would depend on what kind of rear shock one is running. The 16-111CT triple rate front works best with the 20-105 or 20-105E rear shock. It has a smoother spring progression that transfers onto the main spring deeper into the travel, complementing the longer travel of the rear suspension. However, like the 20-105(E) shock, you don't have a rebound adjuster. This becomes a personal preference issue. If you are running a stock shock or a 20-104(E), you would probably be better off with a 16-112 dual rate/dual adjust front. Because the rear suspension doesn't
have as much up travel as a 20-105(E), you will need to transfer onto the front main spring sooner to keep the chassis balanced. If the front is able to handle more than the rear, the back will have a tendency to kick and you might be staring at the ground when you should be looking forward. Transferring onto the main earlier in this application doesn't leave much room for the progression of a triple rate making the dual rate with rebound a better option.



Sorry I took so long to reply. If you have any more questions feel free to e-mail me at: Mr_quad@lycos.com (I will try to get back to you ASAP)

 

PaRoostR, where can I find the Gibson a-arms you are talking about? Do they have a web site or anything?

 

I have the Houser/Elka setup. The Houser A-arms are avaliable for either stock length shocks, or long travel shocks. Stock length is a little over 16 inches. The long travel shocks are over 19 inches. The longer shock gives you more fluid volume, slower piston speed, and less turbulence of your oil. You will have better, smoother damping action with the longer shock. My long travel set up gives me 12 real inches of wheel travel. I have the tripple rates with remote rezzies and comp. adjust. My rear shock is an Elka dual rate, dual adjust, remote res, and gives 10 inches of wheel travel. For the price, I think that this is the best system out there. The shocks are very adjustable and the bike rides awesome. I have the "self sagging feature" which is pretty nice as it lets the bike sit a couple of inches lower. The other shocks that I have seen really let the machine sit LOW, which is fine for moto or TT, but not so good for actual play-riding.

 

You can view some info, spec's and pictures of the Gibson arms at K&K's web site.

One other company is
Herrmann racing

 

Ridzhard I see you have the long travel front end with self sagging shocks. I had Elkas on my raptor with stock a-arms and they were great in the dunes and on an mx track. I ordered my Elkas without the self sagging device because I was told they work better in the dunes than shocks equipped with the sagging device. I ride in the dunes more than I race so that's how I ordered them. I would like to know if you have rode in the dunes with your set up, and let me know your thoughts? I have never ridden in the dunes on a quad with self sagging shocks. I have a new Suzuki coming and I want to make the right suspension choice. Thanks for your input.

 

where can i find the new lonestar bind free spindles at?