Ranger XP owners swapping 700SP quad parts
#1
02-10-2006, 02:53 AM
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Ranger XP owners swapping 700SP quad parts
Howdy,
As many of you know, Polaris decided to do their best to neuter the Ranger 700 XP. The engine is handcuffed with an ECU that rev-limits around 6,000 RPM along with retarded timing, etc.
We've done the same mods, white spring; I've gone with 55 gram weights to keep the revs up (I feel the Ranger is over-geared); and a PowerCommander. As well, my mechanic-dude said that the stock XP throttle position sensor doesn't send a "go faster" signal for the last bit of throw so he installed one from the 700 SP (others say that the TPS in the SP and XP are the same part number, so they are the same.). All I know is that my Ranger is performing much better now and is hitting top speed and the rev-limiter in about half the distance as well as squirting out of turns with more authority.
I told him to order the EFI quad ECU. Supposedly it has a 6,500 RPM rev-limiter as well as slightly more aggressive timing.
After that, I'll have him put in an SP cam or, if he feels the application is correct, a Hotcam.
Any comments (especially on the ECU and TPS)?
Thanks,
Rick
As many of you know, Polaris decided to do their best to neuter the Ranger 700 XP. The engine is handcuffed with an ECU that rev-limits around 6,000 RPM along with retarded timing, etc.
We've done the same mods, white spring; I've gone with 55 gram weights to keep the revs up (I feel the Ranger is over-geared); and a PowerCommander. As well, my mechanic-dude said that the stock XP throttle position sensor doesn't send a "go faster" signal for the last bit of throw so he installed one from the 700 SP (others say that the TPS in the SP and XP are the same part number, so they are the same.). All I know is that my Ranger is performing much better now and is hitting top speed and the rev-limiter in about half the distance as well as squirting out of turns with more authority.
I told him to order the EFI quad ECU. Supposedly it has a 6,500 RPM rev-limiter as well as slightly more aggressive timing.
After that, I'll have him put in an SP cam or, if he feels the application is correct, a Hotcam.
Any comments (especially on the ECU and TPS)?
Thanks,
Rick
#2
02-10-2006, 10:14 PM
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Ranger XP owners swapping 700SP quad parts
Here are the mods that I have done, and plan to do on my Ranger...
http://forums.atvconnection.com/mess...did/480998.cfm
http://forums.atvconnection.com/mess...did/480998.cfm
The Ranger engine has been neutered by the factory and it can be improved. I also think the clutch gearing is a little high and it doesn't downshift fast enough. I ride mine for about two miles on the street to get to my favorite dry river run.
Go here for a discussion of Ranger mods...
http://utilityoffroad.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=11
Here are the mods:
1) Put on the white clutch spring which is a little stouter than stock. I will bump up the engagement RPMs but about 200 RPMs and get your motor into the powerband sooner. Others go for an even stiffer spring which bumps the revs up to 400 RPM from stock.
2) The stock 60 gram clutch weights are too heavy and get the ratio climbing higher and faster than the muted engine should allow. I had 55 gram weights put on mine. The combination of the white spring and the lighter weights mean my XP climbs to RPM (~4,500 RPM) faster and stays there as the Ranger accelerates to the rev-limiter. Another bonus is that the clutch will also "downshift" faster when you are going into a corner from which you want to squirt more power when you come out of the turn. For some reason, a few folks will go up in weight. This is a bad move unless you've modded the engine to produce more power.
Both clutch mods should be under $100. Cheapest mod you can do. And your best bang for the buck.
3) More power: Three things (two reasonably affordable, one a bit pricey) can be done.
a) more fuel -- (PowerCommander, or Dobeck TFI), both about $225
b) more revs up to 6500 from the stock's `6,000 (my measurement) swap the ECU from the 700SP quad. $299
c) swap the cam out of the SP 700 quad or maybe a "Hotcam." Maybe $550 for cam and labor.
I'll add d) look at your throttle plate. Odds are that a fully depressed gas pedal won't fully open your throttle plate. Mine was opening only 80%. Another's was 70%.
Currently I have the clutch mod, the Power Commander as well as the throttle position sensor ($120) from the SP 700. It is said that the 700XP TPS from the Ranger doesn't send a "go faster" signal toward the end of the throw. Jury is still out, but my throttle behaves differently. With these mods, my Ranger still rev-limits at 6,000 and 44.5 mph (GPS), but it gets to top speed in just a little over half the distance. Trail performance has improved too (I have some favorite high-speed sections with fun turns). Also, before to maintain top speed just under the rev-limiter, I had the pedal almost all the way down. Now I have to back off the throttle to about 1/3 (not 1/3rd from the floor, 1/3 total).
Anothe peculiar thing I noticed with my stock Ranger. Top speed with pedal mashed was 42. If I backed off the throttle about an inch or so, I could feel an acceleration. I measured the speed increase to 44.5 mph. I'm guessing that was the TPS, since it doesn't do that anymore.
Next week I'll add the SP ECU which should give me the extra revs, as well as a more aggressive spark advance (especially above 5500 RPM where the stock Ranger begins to retard the timing to ease into the rev limiter).
After that, my last mod will likely be the cam in a few months. I don't know whether I will go with the SP cam (it has more lift and duration, but no overlap -- it is still a smog cam), or go with the Hotcam, which might be designed to be efficient at RPMs above my normal operating range.
I hope this helps.
Rick
Go here for a discussion of Ranger mods...
http://utilityoffroad.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=11
Here are the mods:
1) Put on the white clutch spring which is a little stouter than stock. I will bump up the engagement RPMs but about 200 RPMs and get your motor into the powerband sooner. Others go for an even stiffer spring which bumps the revs up to 400 RPM from stock.
2) The stock 60 gram clutch weights are too heavy and get the ratio climbing higher and faster than the muted engine should allow. I had 55 gram weights put on mine. The combination of the white spring and the lighter weights mean my XP climbs to RPM (~4,500 RPM) faster and stays there as the Ranger accelerates to the rev-limiter. Another bonus is that the clutch will also "downshift" faster when you are going into a corner from which you want to squirt more power when you come out of the turn. For some reason, a few folks will go up in weight. This is a bad move unless you've modded the engine to produce more power.
Both clutch mods should be under $100. Cheapest mod you can do. And your best bang for the buck.
3) More power: Three things (two reasonably affordable, one a bit pricey) can be done.
a) more fuel -- (PowerCommander, or Dobeck TFI), both about $225
b) more revs up to 6500 from the stock's `6,000 (my measurement) swap the ECU from the 700SP quad. $299
c) swap the cam out of the SP 700 quad or maybe a "Hotcam." Maybe $550 for cam and labor.
I'll add d) look at your throttle plate. Odds are that a fully depressed gas pedal won't fully open your throttle plate. Mine was opening only 80%. Another's was 70%.
Currently I have the clutch mod, the Power Commander as well as the throttle position sensor ($120) from the SP 700. It is said that the 700XP TPS from the Ranger doesn't send a "go faster" signal toward the end of the throw. Jury is still out, but my throttle behaves differently. With these mods, my Ranger still rev-limits at 6,000 and 44.5 mph (GPS), but it gets to top speed in just a little over half the distance. Trail performance has improved too (I have some favorite high-speed sections with fun turns). Also, before to maintain top speed just under the rev-limiter, I had the pedal almost all the way down. Now I have to back off the throttle to about 1/3 (not 1/3rd from the floor, 1/3 total).
Anothe peculiar thing I noticed with my stock Ranger. Top speed with pedal mashed was 42. If I backed off the throttle about an inch or so, I could feel an acceleration. I measured the speed increase to 44.5 mph. I'm guessing that was the TPS, since it doesn't do that anymore.
Next week I'll add the SP ECU which should give me the extra revs, as well as a more aggressive spark advance (especially above 5500 RPM where the stock Ranger begins to retard the timing to ease into the rev limiter).
After that, my last mod will likely be the cam in a few months. I don't know whether I will go with the SP cam (it has more lift and duration, but no overlap -- it is still a smog cam), or go with the Hotcam, which might be designed to be efficient at RPMs above my normal operating range.
I hope this helps.
Rick
#3
02-11-2006, 12:03 PM
Ranger XP owners swapping 700SP quad parts
Ummm... sorry to burst your bubble, but the TPS is exactly the same for the EFI ATV's and XP's. There is no "go faster" signal that is disabled in the XP sensor. I hope your mechanic didn't charge you for replacing your TPS. If he did, you got screwed.
As for swapping the ECU with the one from the ATV, you're correct, it will raise the RPM limit which will help with performance. However, your chances of a belt failure are much higher with the ATV ECU. I'm not a mechanical guy, so I can't tell you exactly why, but I do know this is a problem. I imagine that this can be fixed with some additional clutch work, but I don't know what needs to be done.
The cheapest way to get more performance out your XP to adjust the amount of throw you have with the gas pedal. I believe that the stock XP pedal doesn't allow the throttle to open all the way. You can either grind a little bit of metal off the back of your pedal, or grind a little piece out of your floor board to allow full travel.
As for swapping the ECU with the one from the ATV, you're correct, it will raise the RPM limit which will help with performance. However, your chances of a belt failure are much higher with the ATV ECU. I'm not a mechanical guy, so I can't tell you exactly why, but I do know this is a problem. I imagine that this can be fixed with some additional clutch work, but I don't know what needs to be done.
The cheapest way to get more performance out your XP to adjust the amount of throw you have with the gas pedal. I believe that the stock XP pedal doesn't allow the throttle to open all the way. You can either grind a little bit of metal off the back of your pedal, or grind a little piece out of your floor board to allow full travel.
#4
02-11-2006, 12:45 PM
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Ranger XP owners swapping 700SP quad parts
No bubble bursted and no need for "um." I am aware that the parts share the same part number. No need for the strong language. My mechanic didn't "screw" me. We are testing these things out in tandem. I am (we are) doing this on the fly. The TPS was advised. I went for it. I'll test the "before and after." No biggy.
I am unaware of any extra belt wearing due to the 700 SP ECU. But I suppose there could be extra belt wear incurred after many standard mods -- Different spring/weights. More fuel. More RPM. Different tires. Hotter cam. Swapping the taller SP tranny gears. And then there is behavior -- racing around the desert, splashin' round in the wet stuff, long technical climbs. Yeah, I fully expect my belt life to be diminished, and have fun while I'm doing it.
What is unknown to most, is what the clutch will be doing as it goes from it's normal 6,000 RPM point to the new 6,500 or so range with the new ECU. An extra 500 RPMs will cause those weights to throw out more. We'll have to figure it out.
As for the pedal throw mod, my mechanic didn't need to do any major surgery. He adjusted the cable as much as he could, and then put spacers (washers) behind the pedal mount. Others used a clamped roll-pin to take up the slack.
Rick
I am unaware of any extra belt wearing due to the 700 SP ECU. But I suppose there could be extra belt wear incurred after many standard mods -- Different spring/weights. More fuel. More RPM. Different tires. Hotter cam. Swapping the taller SP tranny gears. And then there is behavior -- racing around the desert, splashin' round in the wet stuff, long technical climbs. Yeah, I fully expect my belt life to be diminished, and have fun while I'm doing it.
What is unknown to most, is what the clutch will be doing as it goes from it's normal 6,000 RPM point to the new 6,500 or so range with the new ECU. An extra 500 RPMs will cause those weights to throw out more. We'll have to figure it out.
As for the pedal throw mod, my mechanic didn't need to do any major surgery. He adjusted the cable as much as he could, and then put spacers (washers) behind the pedal mount. Others used a clamped roll-pin to take up the slack.
Rick
#5
02-17-2006, 11:49 PM
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Ranger XP owners swapping 700SP quad parts
I finally had Dennis install the 700 SP ECU today.
He tried different PowerCommander maps but the one that worked best was the one he had on it, plus another 500 RPM of throttle position and fuel squirting typed in by hand by Dennis via the PowerCommander III USB software.. He said he got it all the way to 6,500 RPM in low range but didn't have enough city street to see if it could hit the rev-limiter.
I fired it up and tooled around navigating the crowded city streets of downtown Glendale, AZ. The engine felt like it had just a bit more thumpity-thump for some reason. I finally got to a spot that was long enough to get up to speed. It was slightly downhill so I was able to spin up fairly quickly. I listened to the familiar sounds of the engine spooling up to what used to be its 6,000 RPM redline. I heard the tranny whine as per usual as well.
And the thing kept going. The pitch became higher than I had heard before and I didn't feel the stock ECU wimping out as it retarded the timing to ease into the rev-limiter. Instead, it continued to climb until it began to bump into the re-limiter. The downhill became an uphill as I climbed a bridge. That would be the end of my test as I headed back to Richard's ATV.
Time to go home and turn on the GPS.
I had both the Garmin and the Magellin. I began the sprints up 43rd Avenue and found that I was able to surpass 44+mph and climb nicely to 46mph and then more slowly to 47.1 as measured by both instrument. Down and back both ways. Same speed, +/- a tenth or so. No rev-limiter was hit, not even a tickle.
[edit] After writing this, I went out and braved the night time streets to drive down to Happy Valley Rd and I-17. I took the Ranger down the overpass and the slope allowed me to hit the rev-limiter rather soundly at 47.5 mph.[edit]
I then took my wife and daughter on my quickie river run.
Some background: we are going to go on a ride out by Lake Pleasant with my buddy who convinced me to buy a Ranger. He has a 2005 500 single and was dubius about me paying the extra money for the XP since he didn't think whatever power gain I got was worth the trouble. Our first outing happened when I had only about six hours on the XP, so the engine was tight and he was marginally faster than me on the straights...this includes my plastic rear window which acted as a parachute. Once my engine broke in, our speeds were more evenly matched. He later admitted that he had done some mods, but wouldn't fess up to which (jetting? cam?). He wouldn't say.
With my wife and daughter, the Ranger was hitting about 46.7 mph. Once off the street and on the trail, my wife saw how the Ranger responded to the throttle out of the turns.
"We are going to kick Vince's butt." [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Well, we'll see tomorrow as I'm sure we'll have plenty of straight pipeline road.
I told Dennis that the next (and last step) was putting in a hotter cam. He has about three months to figure out (for me) whether the SP cam or some derivation of the HotCam is the way to go.
Rick
He tried different PowerCommander maps but the one that worked best was the one he had on it, plus another 500 RPM of throttle position and fuel squirting typed in by hand by Dennis via the PowerCommander III USB software.. He said he got it all the way to 6,500 RPM in low range but didn't have enough city street to see if it could hit the rev-limiter.
I fired it up and tooled around navigating the crowded city streets of downtown Glendale, AZ. The engine felt like it had just a bit more thumpity-thump for some reason. I finally got to a spot that was long enough to get up to speed. It was slightly downhill so I was able to spin up fairly quickly. I listened to the familiar sounds of the engine spooling up to what used to be its 6,000 RPM redline. I heard the tranny whine as per usual as well.
And the thing kept going. The pitch became higher than I had heard before and I didn't feel the stock ECU wimping out as it retarded the timing to ease into the rev-limiter. Instead, it continued to climb until it began to bump into the re-limiter. The downhill became an uphill as I climbed a bridge. That would be the end of my test as I headed back to Richard's ATV.
Time to go home and turn on the GPS.
I had both the Garmin and the Magellin. I began the sprints up 43rd Avenue and found that I was able to surpass 44+mph and climb nicely to 46mph and then more slowly to 47.1 as measured by both instrument. Down and back both ways. Same speed, +/- a tenth or so. No rev-limiter was hit, not even a tickle.
[edit] After writing this, I went out and braved the night time streets to drive down to Happy Valley Rd and I-17. I took the Ranger down the overpass and the slope allowed me to hit the rev-limiter rather soundly at 47.5 mph.[edit]
I then took my wife and daughter on my quickie river run.
Some background: we are going to go on a ride out by Lake Pleasant with my buddy who convinced me to buy a Ranger. He has a 2005 500 single and was dubius about me paying the extra money for the XP since he didn't think whatever power gain I got was worth the trouble. Our first outing happened when I had only about six hours on the XP, so the engine was tight and he was marginally faster than me on the straights...this includes my plastic rear window which acted as a parachute. Once my engine broke in, our speeds were more evenly matched. He later admitted that he had done some mods, but wouldn't fess up to which (jetting? cam?). He wouldn't say.
With my wife and daughter, the Ranger was hitting about 46.7 mph. Once off the street and on the trail, my wife saw how the Ranger responded to the throttle out of the turns.
"We are going to kick Vince's butt." [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Well, we'll see tomorrow as I'm sure we'll have plenty of straight pipeline road.
I told Dennis that the next (and last step) was putting in a hotter cam. He has about three months to figure out (for me) whether the SP cam or some derivation of the HotCam is the way to go.
Rick
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05-31-2021, 03:17 PM
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