Polaris recalls the XP
#41
12-26-2009, 05:12 PM
A couple of points...would you find it so amusing if your machine had the loose ball joints/knucles and was sitting in the shop for weeks wiatng on parts to be fixed when the company has known about the problem for months? Would that be amusing?
If what you are saying is correct(lot numbers,serial numbers dates ect) then why have there been machines made completely outside the date range that have had the problem?
19 reports out of 8500 may not sound like alot...but how many are out there and the owners are not mechanically incluined and have no idea they are loose??...would it suprise you if I showed you an ATV recall with ONE reported case also no injuries?
As long as this have been going and parts to fix it are still on back order... on I don't think anyone AFFECTED would consider waht Polaris has done up to this point "stepping up to the plate"...as I mentioned earlier companies that drag there feet love guys like you...
They aren't trying protecting the consumer as the priority at this point,they are TRYING to protect the company from a lawsuit. "feel good they are stepping up to the plate"?? That is amusing.
I agree all machines can have a dangerous issue,I am also the one that pointed out it was a problem with parts likely made by a supplier..it isn't the mechanical issue that I have a hard time with, it is how it is being handled. Yes other companies,and not just ATV manufacturers, have acted similarly..does that mean we as consumers accept that as a standard?
JMO...
Be amused.
If what you are saying is correct(lot numbers,serial numbers dates ect) then why have there been machines made completely outside the date range that have had the problem?
19 reports out of 8500 may not sound like alot...but how many are out there and the owners are not mechanically incluined and have no idea they are loose??...would it suprise you if I showed you an ATV recall with ONE reported case also no injuries?
As long as this have been going and parts to fix it are still on back order... on I don't think anyone AFFECTED would consider waht Polaris has done up to this point "stepping up to the plate"...as I mentioned earlier companies that drag there feet love guys like you...
They aren't trying protecting the consumer as the priority at this point,they are TRYING to protect the company from a lawsuit. "feel good they are stepping up to the plate"?? That is amusing.
I agree all machines can have a dangerous issue,I am also the one that pointed out it was a problem with parts likely made by a supplier..it isn't the mechanical issue that I have a hard time with, it is how it is being handled. Yes other companies,and not just ATV manufacturers, have acted similarly..does that mean we as consumers accept that as a standard?
JMO...
Be amused.
I find this whole thread quite amusing...
While it is always possible that this could be a Polaris engineering defect, it is a VERY remote possibility if you look at the part affected! In the first place this is NOT a Polaris manufactured part! It is an outsourced part just like the ECMs that resulted in recalls in earlier Polaris machines! This squarely puts the cause of this problem down the manufacturing food chain with the parts supplier OR their suppliers! Given a part like this, it could be a failure of any one of the many components that make up the problem part, ranging from the steel/metal, seals, bearings or a combination of the above that caused the failure! Not to mention the supplier cheapening their process or subcontracting the part to another supplier that Polaris wouldn't necessarily know about!
Now, you may think Polaris should have caught this before this common part caused such a problem, but outside of x-ray or other incredibly expensive testing of each of the hundreds of parts that make up an ATV, effectively making the machine so costly no one would be able to afford it! Which would make all of this a moot point!
All they can do is put the best possible parts into their machines designing them to be as safe as possible knowing that there will always be a certain risk of failure in any humanly designed/manufactured, part/machine!
Kind of like Ford, GM, Chrysler, and yes HONDA and all their major safety recalls! NO company is immune!
While this kind of thing can be quite unnerving, Polaris keeps very detailed records of ALL the parts that go into their machines...Serial numbers, lot numbers, part delivery dates, results of random pull tests, install dates, etc...and would cross reference them with warrantee claims, compliant reports, and dealer reports to pinpoint the problem parts and make sure they fix each and every effected machine! While your machine may fall in the reported manufacture dates, Polaris undoubtedly knows what lot/serial numbers are effected and what machines they were installed on...thus the "go to your dealer" thing! The dealers will access the Polaris data base which list the machines effected and covered by the recall.
Keep in mind, 19 accident reports is a realitively small number to base a recall on when compared to 8500 units...while I know it is posibly a very serious failure, we have all seen and maybe done boneheaded moves that could cause this kind of failure so we should all feel good that Polaris is steping up to the plate here!
Cheers!
While it is always possible that this could be a Polaris engineering defect, it is a VERY remote possibility if you look at the part affected! In the first place this is NOT a Polaris manufactured part! It is an outsourced part just like the ECMs that resulted in recalls in earlier Polaris machines! This squarely puts the cause of this problem down the manufacturing food chain with the parts supplier OR their suppliers! Given a part like this, it could be a failure of any one of the many components that make up the problem part, ranging from the steel/metal, seals, bearings or a combination of the above that caused the failure! Not to mention the supplier cheapening their process or subcontracting the part to another supplier that Polaris wouldn't necessarily know about!
Now, you may think Polaris should have caught this before this common part caused such a problem, but outside of x-ray or other incredibly expensive testing of each of the hundreds of parts that make up an ATV, effectively making the machine so costly no one would be able to afford it! Which would make all of this a moot point!
All they can do is put the best possible parts into their machines designing them to be as safe as possible knowing that there will always be a certain risk of failure in any humanly designed/manufactured, part/machine!
Kind of like Ford, GM, Chrysler, and yes HONDA and all their major safety recalls! NO company is immune!
While this kind of thing can be quite unnerving, Polaris keeps very detailed records of ALL the parts that go into their machines...Serial numbers, lot numbers, part delivery dates, results of random pull tests, install dates, etc...and would cross reference them with warrantee claims, compliant reports, and dealer reports to pinpoint the problem parts and make sure they fix each and every effected machine! While your machine may fall in the reported manufacture dates, Polaris undoubtedly knows what lot/serial numbers are effected and what machines they were installed on...thus the "go to your dealer" thing! The dealers will access the Polaris data base which list the machines effected and covered by the recall.
Keep in mind, 19 accident reports is a realitively small number to base a recall on when compared to 8500 units...while I know it is posibly a very serious failure, we have all seen and maybe done boneheaded moves that could cause this kind of failure so we should all feel good that Polaris is steping up to the plate here!
Cheers!
#42
12-26-2009, 08:01 PM
Out of curiosity I did a little research...looked up all recalls on ATVs by the major manufacturers and found some interesting results.
I found that no matter where you build ATVs, you have safety defects! If you believe most posters on these forums and a good number of ATV riders in general, American made ATVs are the only recalled machines and the big three imports are above such problems!
In fact, Honda is by far the single most recalled machine since 2000, with about 480,000 machines on 9 "serious safety recalls"!
Kawasaki was second 350,000 machines on 14 recalls with 9 reports of broken bones
related to A-Arm failures...over half of Kawasaki recalls were due to suspension failures and had the most injuries due to recall issues
Yamaha had 200,000 recalls with no major injuries
Suzuki had 14 recalls totaling 110500 units with a head injury being the most serious injury of all ATV recalls
Arctic Cat reported approx. 90,000 recalled units with the most serious injuries including broken bones and separated shoulders
BRP probably the lowest number of machines recalled at 40,500 and no reported injuries with a number of machines lost to fire being the worst reports
Polaris reported 17 recalls for a total of 299,000 effected machines during this time with 6 being the same ECM recall and 3 being the same brake recall The ECM recall accounted for the largest number of units at 131,000
Polaris had 3 reports of broken bones and several minor burn/abrasion reports
The REALLY interesting point that popped up here was the fact that every one of these manufacturers had major numbers of recalls due to ball joint failures and the 8500 unit Polaris recall is their first issue of this type and the smallest recall of this part by any of the major ATV manufactures...Suspension problems in general (outside of the Polaris ECM issue), looked to be the biggest problem industry wide...Kawasaki in particular
Now, total sales numbers of these manufacturers should be considered since Honda and Polaris are going to have the biggest number of units out there during this period and would naturally have higher numbers
Note: the " U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission" sites I used for this info listed years 2000 to present
Cheers!
I found that no matter where you build ATVs, you have safety defects! If you believe most posters on these forums and a good number of ATV riders in general, American made ATVs are the only recalled machines and the big three imports are above such problems!
In fact, Honda is by far the single most recalled machine since 2000, with about 480,000 machines on 9 "serious safety recalls"!
Kawasaki was second 350,000 machines on 14 recalls with 9 reports of broken bones
related to A-Arm failures...over half of Kawasaki recalls were due to suspension failures and had the most injuries due to recall issues
Yamaha had 200,000 recalls with no major injuries
Suzuki had 14 recalls totaling 110500 units with a head injury being the most serious injury of all ATV recalls
Arctic Cat reported approx. 90,000 recalled units with the most serious injuries including broken bones and separated shoulders
BRP probably the lowest number of machines recalled at 40,500 and no reported injuries with a number of machines lost to fire being the worst reports
Polaris reported 17 recalls for a total of 299,000 effected machines during this time with 6 being the same ECM recall and 3 being the same brake recall The ECM recall accounted for the largest number of units at 131,000
Polaris had 3 reports of broken bones and several minor burn/abrasion reports
The REALLY interesting point that popped up here was the fact that every one of these manufacturers had major numbers of recalls due to ball joint failures and the 8500 unit Polaris recall is their first issue of this type and the smallest recall of this part by any of the major ATV manufactures...Suspension problems in general (outside of the Polaris ECM issue), looked to be the biggest problem industry wide...Kawasaki in particular
Now, total sales numbers of these manufacturers should be considered since Honda and Polaris are going to have the biggest number of units out there during this period and would naturally have higher numbers
Note: the " U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission" sites I used for this info listed years 2000 to present
Cheers!
#43
12-26-2009, 08:19 PM
Great info...but again the mech failure isn't the real issue,it happens...the handling of it is...JMO Pure luck is the only reason someone hasn't been hurt or killed..
What sounds better to you?
XYZ has received 19 reports of incidents involving the recalled ATVs. No injuries have been reported or
ABC has received one incident report with no injury no material damages.
Both of the above are quoted from recent ATV recalls,on Polaris and another ATV company.
What sounds better to you?
XYZ has received 19 reports of incidents involving the recalled ATVs. No injuries have been reported or
ABC has received one incident report with no injury no material damages.
Both of the above are quoted from recent ATV recalls,on Polaris and another ATV company.
Out of curiosity I did a little research...looked up all recalls on ATVs by the major manufacturers and found some interesting results.
I found that no matter where you build ATVs, you have safety defects! If you believe most posters on these forums and a good number of ATV riders in general, American made ATVs are the only recalled machines and the big three imports are above such problems!
In fact, Honda is by far the single most recalled machine since 2000, with about 480,000 machines on 9 "serious safety recalls"!
Kawasaki was second 350,000 machines on 14 recalls with 9 reports of broken bones
related to A-Arm failures...over half of Kawasaki recalls were due to suspension failures and had the most injuries due to recall issues
Yamaha had 200,000 recalls with no major injuries
Suzuki had 14 recalls totaling 110500 units with a head injury being the most serious injury of all ATV recalls
Arctic Cat reported approx. 90,000 recalled units with the most serious injuries including broken bones and separated shoulders
BRP probably the lowest number of machines recalled at 40,500 and no reported injuries with a number of machines lost to fire being the worst reports
Polaris reported 17 recalls for a total of 299,000 effected machines during this time with 6 being the same ECM recall and 3 being the same brake recall The ECM recall accounted for the largest number of units at 131,000
Polaris had 3 reports of broken bones and several minor burn/abrasion reports
The REALLY interesting point that popped up here was the fact that every one of these manufacturers had major numbers of recalls due to ball joint failures and the 8500 unit Polaris recall is their first issue of this type and the smallest recall of this part by any of the major ATV manufactures...Suspension problems in general (outside of the Polaris ECM issue), looked to be the biggest problem industry wide...Kawasaki in particular
Now, total sales numbers of these manufacturers should be considered since Honda and Polaris are going to have the biggest number of units out there during this period and would naturally have higher numbers
Note: the " U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission" sites I used for this info listed years 2000 to present
Cheers!
I found that no matter where you build ATVs, you have safety defects! If you believe most posters on these forums and a good number of ATV riders in general, American made ATVs are the only recalled machines and the big three imports are above such problems!
In fact, Honda is by far the single most recalled machine since 2000, with about 480,000 machines on 9 "serious safety recalls"!
Kawasaki was second 350,000 machines on 14 recalls with 9 reports of broken bones
related to A-Arm failures...over half of Kawasaki recalls were due to suspension failures and had the most injuries due to recall issues
Yamaha had 200,000 recalls with no major injuries
Suzuki had 14 recalls totaling 110500 units with a head injury being the most serious injury of all ATV recalls
Arctic Cat reported approx. 90,000 recalled units with the most serious injuries including broken bones and separated shoulders
BRP probably the lowest number of machines recalled at 40,500 and no reported injuries with a number of machines lost to fire being the worst reports
Polaris reported 17 recalls for a total of 299,000 effected machines during this time with 6 being the same ECM recall and 3 being the same brake recall The ECM recall accounted for the largest number of units at 131,000
Polaris had 3 reports of broken bones and several minor burn/abrasion reports
The REALLY interesting point that popped up here was the fact that every one of these manufacturers had major numbers of recalls due to ball joint failures and the 8500 unit Polaris recall is their first issue of this type and the smallest recall of this part by any of the major ATV manufactures...Suspension problems in general (outside of the Polaris ECM issue), looked to be the biggest problem industry wide...Kawasaki in particular
Now, total sales numbers of these manufacturers should be considered since Honda and Polaris are going to have the biggest number of units out there during this period and would naturally have higher numbers
Note: the " U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission" sites I used for this info listed years 2000 to present
Cheers!
#44
12-26-2009, 10:29 PM
No Octane, The problem I see here is some on this thread who automatically condemn Polaris, while having no direct knowledge of the true facts of the issue AND expect Polaris to snap their fingers and have at the minimum 8500 ball joints laying around to fix an issue which in all likelyhood is a supplier problem! All while making sure that the new part actually fixes the problem for good!
While I am in no way suggesting that Polaris get a free ride here, they definately need to clean up this issue and I would be impatiant also, I went through this with the wifeys Hawkeye, Polaris took care of the issue and it has been problem free ever since, but lets be realistic here, there is a certain process to this...recognize the issue as a warrentee problem, isolate the cause, identify the effected parts, cross reference the indicated parts to effected machines, then redesign the part in the case of a defective design or order new parts and test them to make sure they actually fix the problem for good...then and only then can an inventory of replacement parts be ordered and manufactured to fix the problem, not to mention getting the parts shipped to dealers and get them installed!
Let's not forget that with this economy, NO supplier is going to have excess inventory of ANY part that isn't specificaly ordered for production! AND, todays manufacturer does not stock more than a few hours of production parts at any one time... let's throw in probable production cutbacks at the parts suppliers and finding another supplier if the original supplier is at fault and refuses to step up...this will in all probability take some time to resolve!
The only redeming grace here is the time of year and the fact that most of these bikes are parked for awhile...here's hoping that those who can afford to wait till spring will and let those in immediate need get timely service...
one note you should be aware of, in the past in these situations Polaris has had a policy of suppling parts to their dealers on a service ranking basis...the more customer service awards and the better their complaint ranking the quicker they get parts! My dealer here has one of the highest service rankings in the midwest region and they are first in line for needed parts...I have found from past experiance that those dealers that sell tons of bikes but have crap service departments get the table scraps parts wise...those service award plaques on the wall DO mean something!
Cheers!
While I am in no way suggesting that Polaris get a free ride here, they definately need to clean up this issue and I would be impatiant also, I went through this with the wifeys Hawkeye, Polaris took care of the issue and it has been problem free ever since, but lets be realistic here, there is a certain process to this...recognize the issue as a warrentee problem, isolate the cause, identify the effected parts, cross reference the indicated parts to effected machines, then redesign the part in the case of a defective design or order new parts and test them to make sure they actually fix the problem for good...then and only then can an inventory of replacement parts be ordered and manufactured to fix the problem, not to mention getting the parts shipped to dealers and get them installed!
Let's not forget that with this economy, NO supplier is going to have excess inventory of ANY part that isn't specificaly ordered for production! AND, todays manufacturer does not stock more than a few hours of production parts at any one time... let's throw in probable production cutbacks at the parts suppliers and finding another supplier if the original supplier is at fault and refuses to step up...this will in all probability take some time to resolve!
The only redeming grace here is the time of year and the fact that most of these bikes are parked for awhile...here's hoping that those who can afford to wait till spring will and let those in immediate need get timely service...
one note you should be aware of, in the past in these situations Polaris has had a policy of suppling parts to their dealers on a service ranking basis...the more customer service awards and the better their complaint ranking the quicker they get parts! My dealer here has one of the highest service rankings in the midwest region and they are first in line for needed parts...I have found from past experiance that those dealers that sell tons of bikes but have crap service departments get the table scraps parts wise...those service award plaques on the wall DO mean something!
Cheers!
#45
12-26-2009, 10:53 PM
If we knew knew months ago that there was a problem Polaris knew...and they ignored it for some reason.
#47
02-01-2010, 12:52 PM
Crappy winter so far though.....bad rain storm ruined what was a nice couple feet of snow.
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02-01-2010, 06:49 PM
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02-02-2010, 05:21 PM
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