I have rode both ATV's and Dirt Bikes, but mostly Dirt Bikes. I have recently sold my quad and again went back to two wheels.

I find this comment kind of strange, if anything, ATV rutted tracks make trails harder for other ATV's not bikes because of clearance and width differences. I ride in an area which shares alot of ATV and dirt bike riders and in my personal experience I have no problem riding in an atv track (I get to chose which one too [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] ). Especially on hard pack eroded hills where some ATV tracks are off-camber and will tilt an ATV as it climbs, on my bike I pick a track and easily go up. When I want to get away from the ATv trails I hit the tight singletrack tree lined trails that allow only the width of my handlebars.

Some dirt bike riders are clouded with unwarrented disdain torwards ATV'ers, they are the short sighted ones who should just enjoy the sport of off-roading and leave thier bias judgement out of it.

Someone saying someone else is ruining a trail seems kind of selfish to me.

 

I ride wite some dirt biking friends from time to time. One of the places they go to has one deep rut about 1-2 foot in depth and 7-8 inches wide. This is obviously caused by the dirt bikes. Everyone of them however has a grudge agaist ATVers and would probably not ride with me if I hadnt known them beforehand.

 

As an avid ATVer and snowmobiler riding in Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota I have noticed the following regarding ATVs and trail damage.

An ATV will not damage a snowmobile trail if the temperature is below 32 degrees and the trail has been packed.

Above 32 the ATV will sink down into the trail and make ruts just far enough apart to grab the skis of snowmobiles who later try and use the trail.

Never drive on a snowmobile trail behind a groomer or before the trail has a chance to set up. The trail will look like it will if the temperatures were above 32 degrees.

Whoops? It has been my experience that 99% of all whoops/stutter bumps/moguls are caused by Dirt Bikes and snowmobiles. In areas frequented by a lot of dirt bikes the trails are just about unrideable.

Ecological trail damage? Ruts in California, Arizona, Nevada and New Mexico take a lot longer to heal than ruts in the Pacific Northwest or or other areas. Because of the lack of rain, ruts in the desert states can stay there for months, sometimes even years. In areas with normal (to above) rainfall and normal vegetation these ruts heal and disapper rapidly. This is why I cannot why the US Forest Service presses for the same nationwide policy for off road use.

 

IMO atv's don't do the damage of bikes. BUT My main ride is a sled!

Depending on where it is that you are riding, the ATV/bike ruts CAN make a diff. Lower Mich is a big one that comes to mind. They just don't get enough snow (these days especially) to cover up the ruts. I have seen plenty of diehards (read dillrods) riding the trail that goes beside the highway at Grayling basically in the dirt. Give them 2" of snow and they are there! I'm guessing that their sliders don't live long! People even trailer to unload there! I don't get it! BUT, they do. Any ruts that are there will certainly show up even with all that 2-4" of snow.

I don't know if ATV's are allowed on there or not. I doubt it. If it were up to me, I think I would turn them in that erea into ATV/bike trails. Sleds used to bring in substantial income, but with relatively low/no snow (as compared to 20-25 years ago) the motels seem to get a LOT of cancelations. I believe they might do better to run wheels on them all year. Let the sleds keep trucking a couple more hours if it's rutted too much. IF BY CHANCE they get snow like before, those ruts won't matter then.

As you say in Main and other deeper snow area's, The ruts aren't near the deal that the ROCKS ever are! If the sleds can clear the rocks the ruts are more than covered. And besides the if the groomer can run, the ruts would get filled in. Just another generallization as to how things should work. Not all places / circomstances are created equal (like us people. LOL!).

I do feel that it is good to keep the wheels off the trail in the winter. YES, they will likely rut them then. I have navigated a section in Ontario years ago where a 4 WD pickup went through. As being a past truck freak (and current subscriber to Four Wheeler for 15 years)I was totally amazed at what the guy went through! It looked like a lot of fun. I used to 4 wheel in the snow too. I liked it. Not dirty, and don't normally tear up the trail underneath. BUT, I paid $130 Canuck for my trail pass! And this dillrod tore it all up. Made it VERY hard to navigate. NOT a slight anoyance. He shoulda been 'wheeling somewheres else.

One of the best things aboot sleding is there is NO damage to mother earth. The wheels can't claim that at all. A month ago we broke trail in Canada, cut trees and drove over sapplings to get through a 25 year old logging road. When we turned around to go back out, at times we couldn't even find our tracks. It was unreal! I try NOT to rut as a rule of thumb. I "tread lightly". 4WD helps this too. In slippery terrain a machine in 4WD may not spin at all, and the 2WD ruts things up. Think aboot it.

BUT, back to the main subject - It just depends on where you are, and the terain.

 

As a primary dirt biker and a secondary ATVer I can say that in my opinion the ATV's don't tear up the land as much as bikes. My KX leaves a deep, thin rut wherever it goes in mud and slop whereas my 250R usually never sinks in. In fact, on an MX track a quad will actually get rid of the ruts that are caused by bikes.

All my 2 wheeled buddies just about disown me when I mention how much I enjoy my quad. I cannot understand how everyone gets so narrow minded that they would shun a sport that is so similar to theirs.

In bikers defense though, whenever I see some fat, drunk hillbilly doing donuts in a cornfield he is always on an ATV - never a bike. I honestly have seen that a lot around here. It is just those very few bad apples that make all offroad enthusiasts look bad.

 

ATV's don't rut up a trail as much as a 2-wheeler. Even on a tank like my Xpedition, weight per square inch of tire on the ground will be less than a dirt bike. I can just about be sure if I had to cut ruts in the mud to get through, the dirt bikes were worse off![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]