Why buy American
#221
06-29-2005, 07:08 PM
Why buy American
QUOTE from J.D. Power on a survey questioned 50,635 owners of 2002 model-year cars and trucks:
GM had the winners in eight of 19 vehicle segments. The Chevrolet Prizm was the top-performing compact car, the Buick LeSabre was the top full-size car and the Chevrolet S-10 was the top mid-size pickup.
Ford had five segment winners.
Toyota had four.
.......said that ranking may surprise consumers, who perceive poor quality at GM because of vehicles the automaker made in the past.
Yep, looks like I'm buying American.
GM had the winners in eight of 19 vehicle segments. The Chevrolet Prizm was the top-performing compact car, the Buick LeSabre was the top full-size car and the Chevrolet S-10 was the top mid-size pickup.
Ford had five segment winners.
Toyota had four.
.......said that ranking may surprise consumers, who perceive poor quality at GM because of vehicles the automaker made in the past.
Yep, looks like I'm buying American.
#222
06-29-2005, 07:13 PM
Why buy American
I guess a lot of people would try to justify their activities...lol. The unemployment numbers we get are total BS. The people that live on state and federal programs (funded by taxpayers) are not included in the figures we are provided. Household wages are "tweaked" as well. Interesting thread guys. Thanks guys for conversing in a reasonably intelligent manner.
#223
06-29-2005, 10:35 PM
Why buy American
Originally posted by: BryceGTX
Umm...That would be 3.5 million new jobs in the US....These are statistics that are readily available with every news agency. You don't have to look very far.
Good you are qualifing the statement. You shouldn't have listed it under "Apparently Michigan really is srtuggling. Facts:"
So what if our EXPORTING will increase jobs in Asia!!!! If we are increasing the number of US jobs by increasing exports, what difference does it make???
Probably you need to read my post. I said expanding markets in Asia results in creating manufacturing plants in Asia.. creating jobs in Asia, this is not the great creation of jobs in the states as you so often allude to. The jobs in the States are more directly supported by domestic products.
Of course profits go overseas...Again, so what?? Most of the profit stays in the US and in Kentucky for that matter. As for GM, where are those profits going?? Oh yea, they don't have any... And, NO I do not want to see GM losing jobs. And I certainly don't want to see another government bail out. It is time for GM to turn it around.
Like I have said many.. many.. many.. times and I will say it again. MORE money stays in the states when we buys from an American auto maker. And as you might have learned in economics, when GM sells more cars.. yes.. even at a loss.. more American workers are working and that money goes directly to GM workers and retirees.. who by the way.. spend their money in the US. And I don't see the difference between the government subsidizing GM than if they spent the money subsidizing a plant for Toyota.
Your efforts to make me look stupid are back-firing. I check my facts and don't post fiction.
Your facts are not fiction when you back them up with a document that we can verify them by. Otherwise, they are your opinion.
Umm...That would be 3.5 million new jobs in the US....These are statistics that are readily available with every news agency. You don't have to look very far.
Good you are qualifing the statement. You shouldn't have listed it under "Apparently Michigan really is srtuggling. Facts:"
So what if our EXPORTING will increase jobs in Asia!!!! If we are increasing the number of US jobs by increasing exports, what difference does it make???
Probably you need to read my post. I said expanding markets in Asia results in creating manufacturing plants in Asia.. creating jobs in Asia, this is not the great creation of jobs in the states as you so often allude to. The jobs in the States are more directly supported by domestic products.
Of course profits go overseas...Again, so what?? Most of the profit stays in the US and in Kentucky for that matter. As for GM, where are those profits going?? Oh yea, they don't have any... And, NO I do not want to see GM losing jobs. And I certainly don't want to see another government bail out. It is time for GM to turn it around.
Like I have said many.. many.. many.. times and I will say it again. MORE money stays in the states when we buys from an American auto maker. And as you might have learned in economics, when GM sells more cars.. yes.. even at a loss.. more American workers are working and that money goes directly to GM workers and retirees.. who by the way.. spend their money in the US. And I don't see the difference between the government subsidizing GM than if they spent the money subsidizing a plant for Toyota.
Your efforts to make me look stupid are back-firing. I check my facts and don't post fiction.
Your facts are not fiction when you back them up with a document that we can verify them by. Otherwise, they are your opinion.
Pardon me for not explaining figures that seem to me as common sense. I have listed sources for many of my facts.
So, what you are saying is if GM expands their market in Asia, it doesn't help Americans keep jobs? You beleive GM would open factories in Asia? Hmm...not very loyal to the American worker in that circumstance.
So, explain how it is good that GM if continues to lose money it is still OK because American workers keep working and money goes to the workers. I don't have my MBA, but my understanding of business suggest the idea of MAKING money and staying in business.
Please explain a couple things for me. First, if GM continues to lose money at this pace, how will they stay in business? Second, we already know it IS NOT price, so why does GM continue to have their a$$ handed to them by the competition?
As pointed out several times, buying American does not necessarily mean you are buying 100% American products. There are imports that have more American content than domestics. There are imports that have significantly greater economic impact on their communities than domestics. You want to pick and choose which Americans to support. I supported residents of Ohio and Mississippi when I bought my Armada and Accord. They both have more significant US content which means they create a lot of jobs. Add the labor cost to the content and it is much better for our economy than an "American" assembled in Mexico or Canada.
You keep bringing up Japan as if it were the holly grail of markets. First, we don't build many cars and trucks that meet the needs of that market. Like I said before, it is a tiny automobile market compared to China or India. But, I agree, they do protect their market. US automobile makers should do the exact same thing Japanese companies did. Over MANY years they lobbied, marketed and grew this market. Additionally, they did a great job of building cars specifically for OUR market. For some reason, US manufacturers refused to learn anything from their competition, putting themselves and thier workers in jeopardy.
#224
06-29-2005, 10:59 PM
Why buy American
Originally posted by: DeeDawg
QUOTE from J.D. Power on a survey questioned 50,635 owners of 2002 model-year cars and trucks:
GM had the winners in eight of 19 vehicle segments. The Chevrolet Prizm was the top-performing compact car, the Buick LeSabre was the top full-size car and the Chevrolet S-10 was the top mid-size pickup.
Ford had five segment winners.
Toyota had four.
.......said that ranking may surprise consumers, who perceive poor quality at GM because of vehicles the automaker made in the past.
Yep, looks like I'm buying American.
QUOTE from J.D. Power on a survey questioned 50,635 owners of 2002 model-year cars and trucks:
GM had the winners in eight of 19 vehicle segments. The Chevrolet Prizm was the top-performing compact car, the Buick LeSabre was the top full-size car and the Chevrolet S-10 was the top mid-size pickup.
Ford had five segment winners.
Toyota had four.
.......said that ranking may surprise consumers, who perceive poor quality at GM because of vehicles the automaker made in the past.
Yep, looks like I'm buying American.
#225
06-30-2005, 01:53 AM
Why buy American
05PRED500,
"Second, we already know it IS NOT price, so why does GM continue to have their a$$ handed to them by the competition?"
C'mon now Pred, if all things were fair in the trading between us and overseas, and you've been reading how unfair it is, their *** would not be handed to them now. They play hard ball and our govt. plays soft. Hell, we still can't sell our apples in Japan. LOL
"Second, we already know it IS NOT price, so why does GM continue to have their a$$ handed to them by the competition?"
C'mon now Pred, if all things were fair in the trading between us and overseas, and you've been reading how unfair it is, their *** would not be handed to them now. They play hard ball and our govt. plays soft. Hell, we still can't sell our apples in Japan. LOL
#226
06-30-2005, 02:22 AM
Why buy American
Originally posted by: Lukester
05PRED500,
"Second, we already know it IS NOT price, so why does GM continue to have their a$$ handed to them by the competition?"
C'mon now Pred, if all things were fair in the trading between us and overseas, and you've been reading how unfair it is, their *** would not be handed to them now. They play hard ball and our govt. plays soft. Hell, we still can't sell our apples in Japan. LOL
05PRED500,
"Second, we already know it IS NOT price, so why does GM continue to have their a$$ handed to them by the competition?"
C'mon now Pred, if all things were fair in the trading between us and overseas, and you've been reading how unfair it is, their *** would not be handed to them now. They play hard ball and our govt. plays soft. Hell, we still can't sell our apples in Japan. LOL
I should have asked the question differently. Why are they getting beaten so badly here in the US. They are practically giving away their vehicles. The dealers have tons of incentives. Advertising is in full force. Quality is up. They have some new models that are exciting in the Corvette and the Solstice. Yet they are still losing $2000+ per vehicle.
It really isn't an unfare question. I own GM stock through a couple of my mutual funds. The shareholders certainly want to know whats going on.
BTW...That wheel and tire set-up you have really makes your Trail Boss...Good choice!
#227
06-30-2005, 09:44 AM
Why buy American
05PRED500,
My answer is still the same.
Thank you for the tire/wheel compliment. I had at least 40 hours of research into that purchase. I think the tires were made in the U.S. while the wheels were made in China. They kinda snuck that part in. I was disappointed when I saw the China stamp on the wheels.
My answer is still the same.
Thank you for the tire/wheel compliment. I had at least 40 hours of research into that purchase. I think the tires were made in the U.S. while the wheels were made in China. They kinda snuck that part in. I was disappointed when I saw the China stamp on the wheels.
#228
06-30-2005, 10:58 AM
Why buy American
I thought Prism is a re-skinned Toyota Corolla. Regardless, quality hasn't been an issue for me. I believe thier quality of late is better. My personal issues have more to do with looks and feel. The Impala is hideous, the Malibu is fugly, the GTO is a waste of a GREAT motor, the interiors in many of the trucks look cheap. I could go on and on. On the positive side and I have mentioned it before, the Solstice is awsome looking (but under powered), the Vette is a phenominal machine, and the Caddys have come a long way.
While I agree on the analysis that you provide on the first 2 cars. Have you ever even bothered to look at an 05 GTO. GM completely, I mean completely mismarketed the car. They should have made it the "Bimmer" killer rather than advertising it as something that would compete with the Mustang. The GTO never started life as a pony car nor will it end it. The new GTO may target a different group than its predecessors but believe me it is a work of art. Sure it may look plain(2004, the new hood scoops and fascia do make it look more menacing), but then again that plain/clean styling did well for our German counterparts. You should really check out the interior on this car, it is great, much better looking then the Vette in my opinion. Then add to the fact that it is a 400 hp, 6 speed, independent rear end (bad for drag racing) it is druel worthy, and you should go give it a closer look before you generalize it along with the rest of the GM line.
#229
06-30-2005, 11:57 AM
#230
06-30-2005, 01:30 PM
Why buy American
Pardon me for not explaining figures that seem to me as common sense. I have listed sources for many of my facts.
LOL, it is not common sense when you list them under "Michigan" I just figured it was another miss-spoken statement from you that had little bearing on the discussion
So, what you are saying is if GM expands their market in Asia, it doesn't help Americans keep jobs? You beleive GM would open factories in Asia? Hmm...not very loyal to the American worker in that circumstance.
GM will open plants in Asia to service that market, just like they have many plants in Europe to service that market. Those cars are typically designed different for the market. And, in order to compete in that market with other manufacturers, they will have to tap the cheap local labor... just like everyone else.. I think we have been discussing this throughout half the thread.
So, explain how it is good that GM if continues to lose money it is still OK because American workers keep working and money goes to the workers. I don't have my MBA, but my understanding of business suggest the idea of MAKING money and staying in business.
I guess your were asleep in your economic classes when they pointed out the cyclic nature of the auto business and they often go from feast to famine from year to year. I suggest you look back on the auto makers sales and profits over the last 50 years if you need a refresher.
Please explain a couple things for me. First, if GM continues to lose money at this pace, how will they stay in business? Second, we already know it IS NOT price, so why does GM continue to have their a$$ handed to them by the competition?
GM often makes money and loses money from year to year. Since you were asleep in economics, go look at their history. Second.. it is price that drives them to reduce the price of their vehicles and give incentives. You have yet to show us that it is not price. LOL, I would hardly call the competition manhandling GM.
As pointed out several times, buying American does not necessarily mean you are buying 100% American products. There are imports that have more American content than domestics. There are imports that have significantly greater economic impact on their communities than domestics. You want to pick and choose which Americans to support. I supported residents of Ohio and Mississippi when I bought my Armada and Accord. They both have more significant US content which means they create a lot of jobs. Add the labor cost to the content and it is much better for our economy than an "American" assembled in Mexico or Canada.
As has been pointed out several times, and even in the document that you provide as your bible.. That imports are forcing job losses in the US. And as been pointed out many times, it is better to buy from an American company because the American companies in general have higher content than the imports. Furthermore, the management, engineering, production and marketing personel are in much greater numbers in the US for US companies than the imports. As has been pointed out in a previous post, both Honda and Nissan have lower content than the domestic made automobiles. But even if they didn't, they don't support the number of US workers: engineers, managers,.... that the US companies support. And their profits are shipped off-shore. LOL, considering it only takes 30 manufacturing man hours per vehicle, it is very difficult to understand how you can suggest than Honda, toyota or Nissan provide a significant worker dollars to the US due to production.
You keep bringing up Japan as if it were the holly grail of markets. First, we don't build many cars and trucks that meet the needs of that market. Like I said before, it is a tiny automobile market compared to China or India. But, I agree, they do protect their market. US automobile makers should do the exact same thing Japanese companies did. Over MANY years they lobbied, marketed and grew this market. Additionally, they did a great job of building cars specifically for OUR market. For some reason, US manufacturers refused to learn anything from their competition, putting themselves and thier workers in jeopardy.
LOL, I guess you don't read the papers eh!! Our biggest competitors in the US automotive markets are the Japanese auto makers!! Your suggestion that 4 million autos per year is a small market is silly. GM only makes 8 million world wide. When I see GM cars driving all over Japan, like I see toyotas driving all over the US, I will not be so critical. This is just plain common sense.
LOL, it is not common sense when you list them under "Michigan" I just figured it was another miss-spoken statement from you that had little bearing on the discussion
So, what you are saying is if GM expands their market in Asia, it doesn't help Americans keep jobs? You beleive GM would open factories in Asia? Hmm...not very loyal to the American worker in that circumstance.
GM will open plants in Asia to service that market, just like they have many plants in Europe to service that market. Those cars are typically designed different for the market. And, in order to compete in that market with other manufacturers, they will have to tap the cheap local labor... just like everyone else.. I think we have been discussing this throughout half the thread.
So, explain how it is good that GM if continues to lose money it is still OK because American workers keep working and money goes to the workers. I don't have my MBA, but my understanding of business suggest the idea of MAKING money and staying in business.
I guess your were asleep in your economic classes when they pointed out the cyclic nature of the auto business and they often go from feast to famine from year to year. I suggest you look back on the auto makers sales and profits over the last 50 years if you need a refresher.
Please explain a couple things for me. First, if GM continues to lose money at this pace, how will they stay in business? Second, we already know it IS NOT price, so why does GM continue to have their a$$ handed to them by the competition?
GM often makes money and loses money from year to year. Since you were asleep in economics, go look at their history. Second.. it is price that drives them to reduce the price of their vehicles and give incentives. You have yet to show us that it is not price. LOL, I would hardly call the competition manhandling GM.
As pointed out several times, buying American does not necessarily mean you are buying 100% American products. There are imports that have more American content than domestics. There are imports that have significantly greater economic impact on their communities than domestics. You want to pick and choose which Americans to support. I supported residents of Ohio and Mississippi when I bought my Armada and Accord. They both have more significant US content which means they create a lot of jobs. Add the labor cost to the content and it is much better for our economy than an "American" assembled in Mexico or Canada.
As has been pointed out several times, and even in the document that you provide as your bible.. That imports are forcing job losses in the US. And as been pointed out many times, it is better to buy from an American company because the American companies in general have higher content than the imports. Furthermore, the management, engineering, production and marketing personel are in much greater numbers in the US for US companies than the imports. As has been pointed out in a previous post, both Honda and Nissan have lower content than the domestic made automobiles. But even if they didn't, they don't support the number of US workers: engineers, managers,.... that the US companies support. And their profits are shipped off-shore. LOL, considering it only takes 30 manufacturing man hours per vehicle, it is very difficult to understand how you can suggest than Honda, toyota or Nissan provide a significant worker dollars to the US due to production.
You keep bringing up Japan as if it were the holly grail of markets. First, we don't build many cars and trucks that meet the needs of that market. Like I said before, it is a tiny automobile market compared to China or India. But, I agree, they do protect their market. US automobile makers should do the exact same thing Japanese companies did. Over MANY years they lobbied, marketed and grew this market. Additionally, they did a great job of building cars specifically for OUR market. For some reason, US manufacturers refused to learn anything from their competition, putting themselves and thier workers in jeopardy.
LOL, I guess you don't read the papers eh!! Our biggest competitors in the US automotive markets are the Japanese auto makers!! Your suggestion that 4 million autos per year is a small market is silly. GM only makes 8 million world wide. When I see GM cars driving all over Japan, like I see toyotas driving all over the US, I will not be so critical. This is just plain common sense.