LOL, no one will drag me into this thread. I come all by myself!! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]

 

Bryce,

I'm still on your side of this thing. To be fair, we are all beginning to sound like a broken record. The key points have been said by both sides more than once. I too have repeated myself. I like your facts about the $ staying at home. Yeah, we might get some labor and etc. $ by working on import cars, but the big part of our $ is gone when we buy the import as opposed to American.

Why did Polaris lose the watercraft?

Pred, I'll be back. Leaving for a blues fest. and will return on Monday.

Peace to all.

 

Bryce-I read as much of the thread as I could, I must have missed that.

And maybe I missed a discussion about other industires that effect the deficit, like electronics, agriculture, banking, and on and on. Autos are a large part, but the deficit is reflective of more than just who buys what. It is also reflective of the flow of money, both in investing and real property. that streams out of a countries and into anothers.

misunderstood trade deficit

online course on trade imbalances

 

Dont worry your not the only one without the time to read every bit of this, but still its an excelent thread and I only wish I had the time to keep up with it as there are many important topics here that are not 100% explained (at least to those of us who are speed reading it lol).

Bryce, thanks for standing your ground and explaining your points etc. I dont agree 100% on everything, but I believe you have a very good grasp on the "big picture" and find myself agreeing with most of your posts.

Pred, Prop etc though I disagree with much of your defense and posts on quality comparisons, the benefits of buying domestic, and some other smaller issues there is merit to the points of free trade (its not really free though) and exercizing our right to purchase whatever we want etc.

Everyone, thanks for a great thread, and there is actually a good amount of info here and lots to be digested and learned.

What I cant believe is how often I have discussed this thread outside in the real world, and how many people really understand and see how the tremendous loss of manufacturing and ever increasing trade deficit have truely effected our quality of life.

I do have to argue a couple points though as I totally disagree with some of the stat's and logic behind them.

First please dont throw flawed and "air brushed" stats around about how great were doing, or how the middle class is striving etc. (sorry if I picked the wrong wording lol) unless you first compare all the variables related to this that are not accounted for. I have said it before but you can pretty much cut all the income or "status" numbers in half since there is now 2 working parents in the majority of households earning those numbers, and the employment numbers are useless because the only include newly unemployed workers (not those still out beyond benefits) and dont account for the large amount of workers settling for much lower salaries just to be employed.

I still am standing my ground on the cause of all of this being from the loss of mfg jobs, and some other unrelated political pressures. Maybe because my state of residence seems to be leading the way down the crapper I have a different and maybe more negative opinion on this, but even with increases in retail, govt, and various service industries things are anything but improving.

Maybe I break this down too much or look at it in a more simple fashion, but if there isnt replacement of the manufacturing thats been lost is there a need for the service jobs? Without the MFG and service companies and the employment they offer who is going to supply the tax dollars needed to fund the govt jobs?

Without the solid foundation of manufacturing supporting the various other levels of the building it has little choice than to crumble to the ground. It appears that this is actually what is happening, and its more obvious everyday. Even the larger state and fed employers are starting to show how tight things are becoming thru the obvious anti labor efforts and actions taken in the recent past and present. Loss of benefits, no contracts, out sourcing (to non union political contributors) and various other methods being used to cut costs and reduce the strength of the unions and their ability to properly protect and represent their members etc only reinforce how bad its getting.

Formerly bottomless pits full of taxpayer dollars offering some of the best blue collar jobs in the state are now drying up, but its at a time when the state is the largest employer, and is now forced to have to borrow billions of dollars just to keep the clycle working and not cause increases in unemployment and additional losses in tax dollars.

You can purchase whatever you like, and do choose what makes the most sense to you etc, but dont fool yourself by being in denial that the losses in domestic manufacturing have not effected your income or quality of life.

Lastly please dont assume that anyone (yourself included) is doing any better by being able to purchase more products due to their being made by someone who is being paid less then you need to purchase a cup of coffee because its unfair to rate ones life by the amount of useless immediately obsolute electronic garbage they have accumalated.

Sorry if I touched on subjects a second time, but its apparent some missed them or just brushed them off previously.

 

QUOTE from Lukester:

"Look at Polaris. Many on these forums may have issues with them. However, they compete very well with 4 Japanese and one Canadian company."
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___________

Yes, but they lost their personal watercraft. Great water sleds nonetheless. The only American personal watercraft I think. And I think the engines were made in the U.S.A. too. My brother owns one of the last of the big ones.



One of the many reasons both Polaris and AC got out of the PWC business is the state where they are manufactured (Minnesota) has a large, noisy group of environmentalists. AC couldn't even ride on the river less than a mile from their plant. Let's not even get started on the costly law suits.

 

Funny you posted about the whole jetski issue since it is getting discussed on another site too.

Thing is with that sport as with this one is that no matter the MFG or their manufacturing location there just was not enough enthusiast or manufacturer support for the sport.

Maybe I should say isnt enough for the offroad interests, and wasnt enough for the jetski since the battle is still atleast continuing for us.

Hopefully no matter the brand we will have something to ride, and someplace to actually ride it.

 

Made in America is very hard to define. Even Polaris buys Fuji motors. I would guess they use some other parts from overseas also. Made in Amerca could also include Mexico and Canada because they are in North Amerca. I work for a company that has bought foreign products and labeled them. The fine print will say where they were made. We have also sold products to foreign companies to label as their own. You can't always know what you are getting by the name brand. Ford, GM, Jeep, Chrysler, Dodge are all USA brand names but have different degrees of foreign partnerships or ownerships as with Chrysler, Dodge and Jeep. I have an international fund in my 401K. The new Pontiac GTO is made in Australia. At least the body is. It really doesn't matter where it is made as long as you get what you want.

 

Hello OkieTom.. You are just rehashing the same tired arguments that have been presented already. The fundamental question is "Why Buy American" You haven't answered that.
Bryce

 

the united states was the bigest exporter in the world, now we are the bigest importer.

you figure it out.....


my buddy has a very large apple farm, and china keeps driving the cost of apples down, they are having a hard time this year because of it.

there is only one thing that i can say if 100% american, and that is myself! born 'N raised! USA!



PS: this country is messed up, when some poor old guy how dident put on his seat belt got 4 years in jail and some freaking #(%^ER raped a poor little girl walked off after 2 months ....

now how american are we? 70 years ago they would linch some bastard like that!


sorry if i afend you, but if you are offended by me not like rapist, IDC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



JOHN

 

Forget them BryceGTX - like the saying goes, "If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand."

I'm done with this thread and look forward to my date tonight. She drives a new Mustang. Or should I say she owns the Stang and I'll be doing the driving.

She understands. And she looks great in that car too!