Ridzhard - I originally had a post very similar to yours all typed up with some examples and all, but didn't like the way I was coming across, so I deleted, rephrased, and just made some generalities instead. It's interesting that you bring up rake angle, a friend and I have been discussing this as of late on the EX.

Samson:
The Banshee only has around 34HP stock, now that's truly pathetic for a twin 350cc 2 stroke if you want to get nasty. A drag race on dirt between a 400EX and a stock Banshee is a toss up (been there done that), the Banshee will usually come out slightly ahead, big deal... The power hit of the Banshee makes it feel much faster, personally I'd rather be deceptively fast than "feel" fast.

The 250R only output 28-32 hp stock, drags between all 3 are very close when stock. Are you saying the 250R is boring and dangerous as well?

Also are you saying that desert racers like bump steer and harsh suspension at high speeds? Do you know what bumpsteer is and what rake angle affects? A Banshee handles better than a 250R... Give me a break.

If anything they use Banshee's because the twin 2 stroke works well in the sand. The Banshee engine responds well to modifications that give it a very peaky powerband, which also works well for the sand, but hurts in almost every other kind of riding and make it fatiguing and difficult to ride in technical situations as well as prone to overheating.

If the Banshee handles so well, why are aftermarket Banshee chassis' based upon 250R geometry and no aftermarket chassis for any bike are based after Banshee geometry?

The Banshee is narrow too, as Ridzhard states this can be corrected with control arms, but things like rake angle, the width of the lower control arm mounts, footpeg position, chassis balance, cradle width, etc... have to be corrected via new frame.

Poor design does not stop with the frame of the Banshee. I think you get the point...

Once again, I am not trying to say the Banshee is a POS and no one in their right mind should get one. But it's probably not the right choice for most people in most cases.

 

if 27 is patetic what about a blaster it onlyhas 18 what was yahmaha thinking huh?

 

Gabe,
The aftermaket companies do make frames based on the Banshee geometery, Lonestar is one example. The reason being is because it handles high speed better. And of course racers wouldn't use the stock suspension because its crap.

As for the Banshee having only 34 hp stock. Yamaha had to power down the motor because of the times back then. To do that they gave it fairly low compression, and extremely restrictive exhaust. Once people modified the motors, Yamaha was no longer liable if people hurt themselves.

Personally I would love to own a Honda 250R because I race Harescrambles now, and the Banshee is no match for the 250R in that enviroment.

But now that Cannondale, Kawasaki, and Gas Gas, are building quads that will be race ready for MX and X-country, the 250R's days could be numbered as well as the best quad for mx or xc. But even still, it would be great to own one.

But I would never even consider owning a 400 ex. You would have to sink a lot of money into the engine to even touch a 250R in acceleration.

87 Banshee
99 Banshee

 

Hey, the stock replacement frames are just that, stock replacement. They are stronger and lighter, but there is a market for them because the yamaha frames bend very easily. Anyhow, a lot depends on the rider. A 400EX won a GNCC in the pro division, how was that possible? I'll tell you, every bit of power a 400EX makes goes to the ground. You can have 100 ponies, but you won't win any race because you will just burn rubber. Unless you drag race only.

 

There is a lot more I could say about chassis design in general and the Banshee in specific, but I don't think very many people would find it interesting or useful. As bad as the Banshee is I have to give it credit, it isn't really that bad. With a few aftermarket mods it can be downright great. I am going to make a prediction that the Raptor will have some bump steer. It will be called darting at speed or some other symptom, but it will be there. I am looking at the photos and the difference in the angle between the tie rods and the control arms appears to be a little much. I think they made a trade off for weight savings. The steering stem doesn't come down far enough. Time will tell if the amazing karnack truly does know all. Untill then everybody go to the garage and tell your current mount how much you love it.

 

I don't know exactly what your problem is with the EX, but....

I have drag raced my EX against my ATC250R and TRX250R's, they are faster, but not much (talking mainly stock bikes). I would have never have bought my EX if the power wasn't close to my R, (in fact my lap times are better on the EX than any other bike I have ever ridden, even before I bought an EX for myself). Again, the hit of the 2 stroke makes it FEEL much faster, when in reality, it is only marginally faster. Also the typical argument is that the Banshee or 250R is much easier to extract power from, which is true, but somewhat at ridability's expense. The harder hitting powerband of a modified bike is more difficult to control and requires more finesse. This is not all bad, (I, for one love 2 strokes), but it does have it's downside in a lot of different riding conditions.

Now, on to racing, harescrambles in particular. I agree that harescrambling is no place for a Banshee (keeping your HP on the ground comes to mind). But this is also a place where the EX excels. In our series (which usually have over 100 bikes per race show up) the C class and B class 4 stroke (comprised of nearly all 400EXs, the only competitive 4 stroke) typically lay down faster lap times and overall times than the B class 250Rs (all in all, they are very, very close). The A class is open (2 or 4 stroke) it's a mixture and anyone can win. Don't believe me? Check for yourself. Results are typically the same at our local MX tracks, in fact, my EX (stock engine) has yet to be beaten at the two practice tracks pictured on my webpage, linked below. Not bad for an obviously inferior machine.

I also agree that there are many new and possibly great quads in our future, but at this moment in time, the EX is quite competitive.

BTW, Ridzhard makes a good point in his last post.

 

Firstly, I don't think the EX is a POS. But I am disapointed in the fact that they couldn't improve upon the 250r, only minor refinements. It seems with all the money they made off it, they just simply gave it to the dirt and street bike R&D. I'm just tired of seeing the sport atv sales money being given away to others sports.

If Honda re-released the 250R with only graphic updates, I'd be upset at that as well. I'm glad Cannondale and the other non Japanese manufactures stepped up to the plate to show how its done.

87 Banshee
99 Banshee

 

I'm with you there, the Banshee's in the same boat.. The next couple of years should prove interesting...

 

Actually the Banshee isn't in the same boat. Because that boat has already sunk like the Titanic with the announement of the raptor.

87 Banshee
99 Banshee

 

Fakie,
The reasons I went with the FMF/Power Cores was simple. I saw them outperform different (toomey, PRD, Paul Turner, Pro Circuit) etc...,types of pipes. My buddies Banshee, with nothing special except maybe the coolhead, was whipping just about everybody that was not ported a the dunes on different weekends. Not only that, but I have a magazine article where they dynoed some of the faster quads at Pikes Peak last year. SOmething like 3 of the 8 quads were running FMF's with the highest horsepower Banshee running the FMF's. That was enough to convince me of their power. I was also able to get a whole "Banshee power Package" for less than the price of the pretty boy Toomeys or Paul Turners. The package included the pipes/silencers, Boyesen reeds, Reed spacer, and boost bottle. I figure the 3 trips to dunes I have made, i have one about 85% of my races, not to mention the gobs of power on tap to climb out of "deadmans" at Walden. If you go with the fmf's you wont be dissapointed..Oh yea, they sound awesome, and the chrome they put on does not look that bad either...

RoostKing...