<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: twentycharacters

polaris claimed that the pred had a power to weight ratio of 0.12hp/lb

&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g t;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;



ok math class. which year b/c it dam sure isnt the one with the fuji, the other guy is on track with the numbers:



Predator: 415/42=9.8809523809523809523809523809524

450R: 350/39=8.974358974358974358974358974359



tell me which has a better ratio?



and actually the honda is slightly higher hp. 39 is a safe number. it is in the 40s at the crank- just like polaris rated their number at 42 at the crank. hell a 250r used to be advertised at 40 at the crank back in the 80's. the 06 and up 450R is easily higher than 04/05 450rs.



i dont now why everyone thinks the predator is the 'end all' fastest bike. its heavy. if you like it fine, im not knocking it. but simple math will show its not beating a 450R. a stock 660 will get beat by a 450R. done that too. there is a replacement for diplacement. its called superior engine design and lighter machine.</end quote></div>

Crazy 1291 rider .12 hp/pd number is right. California EPA board rates the Fuji 500 engine at 48 HP at the crank. 48/415 = .12. The 2007 Predator weight is now 405 lbs since they did away with the Pro Steering on the '07.

Your are kidding yourself with the 350 lb weight of the 450R. ATV sport just weighed it with 1 gallon of gas and it came in at 386 pounds. A little bit of oil and 1 gallon of gas does not weigh 36 lbs!!!

Like many others have said, the 450R and the Predator are extremely close and could go either way. I definately would not bet money on the outcome. Everyone can give an example of a 450R beating the Preddy or the Preddy beating the 450R.

My advise is just go out and race him.

Current review of the '07 Predator 500

Preddy beating a 450R

 

no the calculation stands. 415/42= 9.88

.12? what the hell is that? you are dividing backwards. so i have .12hp to 1 weight? ridiculous. pwr to weight has always been calculated weight /DIV by hp.
They do the same calc with cars, etc...

i dont care about the 07 and up and new KTM predators. not talkin about when the redesigned it -im talking about it before they shaved weight. AND a KICK start 450R. i stand by 350+/- DRY for this 450R. from watching them run, It doent look like the fuji is putting out 48 at the crank. ive never seen a polaris win any race against 450R, YFZ, a raptor - modded or stock.

oh, pardon me - if ATV Sport says it, it must be true! I will bash ATV Sport. They are a worthless rag full of inaccurate information In the late 80's 90s', they were creditble- but the co got bought out and a new ATV sport emerged full of novice, hyped BS. I dont read it.

i will agree on this for everyone with a story about a 450r beating a predator there are equal if not more the opposite way. its a matter of getting out there and running them. i have. beat them. beat 660s. modded 660s no. modded YFZs no. im honest about it. if i lose i tell i lose. if you read my posts on here, im not exactly 'pro 450R' all the time. i call it like it is. honda could have done better. but i will stand behind it in this debate b/c i did it and i know what the 450R can do.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: twentycharacters


i dont care about the 07 and up and new KTM predators. ..................... ive never seen a polaris win any race against 450R, YFZ, a raptor - modded or stock.
</end quote></div>


New KTM powered Predator? You obviously know more than anybody else here, I think you are the only one to see this KTM powered Predator built by Polaris.

And if you have never seen a Polaris win any race against a 450R, YFZ or a Raptor- Modded or stock you need to crawl out of your basement and quit keyboard racing and get some facts. And the next time you are out riding your 450R, you better not line up against the Outlaw 525 or Outlaw 450 or you will see it first hand.

 

KTM and polaris have an agreement on engines(you are a polaris guy you should know this). The outlaw 525 is KTM powered, is it not? they were also going to supply the for the predator. did this not happen? if not my mistake. it only reinforces my stance the fuji powered engine stock for stock will not take a 450R. period. argue it all you want.

even by your own words, you try to convince yourself:
"Like many others have said, the 450R and the Predator are extremely close and could go either way. I definately would not bet money on the outcome. Everyone can give an example of a 450R beating the Preddy or the Preddy beating the 450R."



And the venacular in the last post you made, so eloquent, "keyboard racing," i like that one. but the races i was in were not on a keyboard. i dont care if you beleive it or not. the guy asked what would win and i told him. if you dont like or have seen other results fine, i dont care. i know what i saw and did and most of the posters on this thread have also stated the 450R will beat it so why so you insist (when i refer you back to your own words of, "I definately would not bet money on the outcome") that it wont and start on me? im willing to bet that ive been riding everything out there since before you were born. im not a punk kid throwing out ridiculous crap. ive seen it, ive lived it.

no i dont plan on lining up against an outlaw 525 or 450, they are KTM powered. i know what they can do too. What i dont get is this little blurb about the outlaw 525/450 - doesnt make sense to me as you try to make your case that KTM is not involved, yet throw this in the end; KTM powered machines (its all over their website in case you didnt know..but you should know b/c you have one). you tried a 'bait and switch' here with this being about the predator then switched here to outlaws...who the hell said anything about an outlaw? i didnt.

 

i was looking to see if i could find something online where a 450r and predator race,i seen a deal on you tube where the predator smokes a 450r but that doesnt mean anything anyway.who knows the riding ability of either rider or what has been done to either machine.but for those who want to see it,you tube (pretator vs 450r) type it like that,will take you straight to the race.i have ran a predator with my banshee and a yfz 450 but never a 450r.i know the predator doesnt have a chance against the banshee.my buddies yfz450 also smokes the predator but not as bad as i smoke him.i guess there all good quads all depends on who wants to ride what,they all get ya out of the house.i know i wouldnt personally want a polaris any thing,we have choices.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: twentycharacters
i dont care about the 07 and up and new KTM predators. They were also going to supply the for the predator. <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>

No the Predator never had the KTM engine. Only the new Outlaw 525 and Outlaw 450 have the KTM engine. The only changes to the '07 Predator was they raised the rev limiter and did away with ProSteering.

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: twentycharacters
..................... ive never seen a polaris win any race against 450R, YFZ, a raptor - modded or stock. <div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>

Look up Josh Konecheck. He won the GNCC C class championship on a completely stock Predator, including exhaust, he only had the shocks revalved. So that sounds like a win to me.

Second no bait and switch here, you made the broad statement to say that you have never seen any Polaris win a race modded or stock. Got news for you the Outlaw is a Polaris machine.


<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: twentycharacters

im willing to bet that ive been riding everything out there since before you were born. </end quote></div>
I'll take that bet.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: twentycharacters

no the calculation stands. 415/42= 9.88

.12? what the hell is that? you are dividing backwards. so i have .12hp to 1 weight? ridiculous. pwr to weight has always been calculated weight /DIV by hp.

They do the same calc with cars, etc...

</end quote></div>

so you are saying that power:weight is calculated as weight/power?

If it was then it would be weight[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]ower wouldnt it?

Now it's not my intention to insult your intelligence but by looking at the list of quads you've owned that you're quite a bit older than i am (maybe even double my age?) So it must have been a while since you were in school fulltime.

I dont know what logic makes you think that power:weight is calculated as weight/power and not power/weight but polaris' claim makes sense according to my calculations. 0.12x405=48.6 at the crank (polaris did put some BS up there by saying that honda and yamaha have a PTWR of 0.1- but polaris probably used their RWHP for those calculations and rounded down)

There are a whole bunch of numbers floating around for the 450s and i always thought that the honda, yamaha, and suzuki were all aprox. 42hp at the crank.

Let's say it's 43 though

Now divide 43 by 357- THE REAL WEIGHT OF A 450RKS
Thats 0.12044817927hp/lb

Polaris exaggerated the pred's readings probably so let's put the pred at 47 hp

47/415....
=0.11325301204819277hp/lb

There you have it! the 450r is faster than the pred.... in theory.
Now you have to account for the pred's tires being superior. Maxxis Razr tires (great) vs Knobby Radials (honda is embarassed by its tires so it doesnt mention a brand)

However there's another factor flywheel weights- the pred has a heavier flywheel right? that would make it rev slower no matter how much you shorten the gears- the 450r will always rev faster.

 

dude, im not that dam old but have been involved in this sport for a long time; yes prob even longer than you have been alive. i wont use your youth and inexperience as an issue here. you seem to be bright, just a little misguided in your enthusiasm for the predator -when you dont even have one or testify that you have seen one in action going up against a 450R.

yes the calculation is technically called weight to power; typical american society has it backwards as it is has transposed this for years and has for intents and purposes, it is what is refered to as 'power to weight' ratio:

Weight-to-power ratio (power loading) is a calculation commonly applied to aircraft, cars, and vehicles in general, to enable the comparison of one vehicle performance to another. Weight-to-Power ratio is a measurement of the acceleration capability (potential) of any land vehicle or climb performance of any aircraft or space vehicle).

The other power to weight ratio is a decimal and it was originally devised to gauge the output of an engine to the engine's weight.


This following website has a 'power to weight' ratio of all cars; it is in the format i told you. weight div/hp. they have always calculated cars this way.

http://www.aspecpro.com/


still in all, 42 at the crank to low for 450R, esp 06 model. these are doing significantly higher... oh gee, thanks for being 'conservative' on the predator and putting it at 47 (down from the previous 48 stated).

we could go on for days about this and already have, but its almost pointless. some are gonna say it will, some wont. the fact is ive ran em, beat em. tell you what, you get a predator ill race you and ill be the first to post LOST TO A PREDATOR and CRAZY1291 beat me!

 

Evasiveone:
1. you told me about the engine. Their original plans were to have the predator with KTM as well...
2. 'any polaris' comment was intended for Predator. i cant type that well.
3. Outlaw 525 is not a true polaris machine. it is KTM powered. its like saying i have a ford with a chevy LS6 in it. kinda doesnt work for brand continuity does it?
4. so i win the bet?
5. It may be true that it can go either way depending on rider; my 450R has beaten predators. that is what i can testify to. if the guy asked the question and i had been beaten by a predator i would have said, "hey dude, got beat by one." but it was the opposite and i told what i have seen/done. and i get this whole frickin debate for the last few days about it. if you have seen diff things, fine. wonderful.

2007 Pro ATV results:

1 YAM Bill V Ballance 251
2 HON Chris M Borich 234
3 HON Chris Bithell 206
4 HON Matt J Smiley 194
5 HON Adam Mcgill 176
6 YAM Taylor Kiser 158
7 HON Duane Johnson 148
8 HON Bryan Cook 137
9 KAW William Yokley 120
10 HON Chris Jenks 116


Wheres polaris in the pros last year? Oh it was the ameture class that Josh finished first in...hmmm
with a honda right on his heels by 1 point and no other polaris around... wel a win is a win i guess. but id rather win by more than one point to show any sort of dominance...why dont more people race with it?

1 POL Josh Konecheck 157
2 HON Jeff Seelig 156
3 YAM Christopher Newton 150
4 HON Buzz Deer 149
5 HON James Davidson 143
6 SUZ Richard Nolan 123
7 HON Jamie Bithell 107
8 HON Phillip Mitchko 97
9 HON Tony Hochstetler 91
10 KAW Jesse Mekins 91

 

A near stock Outlaw IRS won the Jr A class to. Also, the Outlaw is pure Polaris even tho it has a KTM engine. The chassie and suspension need to be able to handle it, and the Outlaw does real fine at that. You will see the Outlaw on many Podiums in 08, and that I will garrenty.