Eiger jetting, stock is 122! WAY too lean
Sep 25, 2008 | 08:46 PM
#111
Trailblazer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Eiger jetting, stock is 122! WAY too lean
Is it only on deceleration or while throttling up? carb goes lean when they shut their mouth all of a sudden so ya got to give it more fuel from the slow or idle circuit if that is condition your experiencing. Maybe do plug check to confirm lean or rich condition, or maybe check that the diaphragm seated before ya put the lid on...that you didn't loose needle jet if you took primary out along with it's tube, that the float didn't get misadjusted.
Here this may help..could stand to be attached to every thread:
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: 2manytoys
Thanks smb05
I was going to add the carb circuits but did not want to be too difficult for the average person so I did not include it. In one of the sentences that I wrote I meant to say lower the clip NOT lower the needle. Ok so heres the beginners guide to jetting and if you have any driveability problems this can help find your problem.
Pilot circuit; 0 to 1/4 throttle
Start by bringing the engine up to operating temperature. Open the throttle slightly. Does the engine pick up speed smoothly? If it doesn't, the fuel-mixture screw may be out of adjustment or the pilot jet may be either too small or too large. To determine the pilot screw setting, adjust the idle-speed screw so that the engine is idling slightly fast, somewhere between 10 and 20 percent above the recommended idle speed. Using either the manufacturer's or the jet kit's recommended pilot screw setting as a starting point, turn the fuel screw left or right between 1/4 and 1/2 of a turn. Select the screw position where the engine speed increase is the greatest. Readjust the idle speed to the correct level.
Next, take the bike for a ride, preferably on a relatively quiet, straight section of road. Using your throttle index, run the bike at 1/4 throttle. If the pilot jetting is correct, the engine should run smoothly, and it should be easy to maintain a constant speed without varying the throttle position. If the bike surges or hunts, the pilot jet is probably too small (lean). Other indications that the pilot circuit is lean are popping or spitting through the carburetor when the throttle is opened and popping or backfiring through the exhaust when the throttle is shut. If the pilot circuit is rich, the engine will have a rough idle or may not return to idle without "blipping" the throttle. You may also notice a distinct smell of raw fuel and some eye irritation from the exhaust.
Low- to high-speed transition; 1/4 to 3/8 throttle
Although the throttle cutaway plays a significant role between 1/4 and 3/8 throttle, it is seldom changed when rejetting a streetbike, particularly a cruiser. For that reason I'll gloss over it. Basically the only time the cutaway needs changing is when the transition from the low-speed fuel circuit (pilot jet) to the high-speed circuit (needle, needle jet and main jet) gets seriously out of whack.
Medium throttle opening; 1/4 to 3/4 throttle
The fuel delivery at this stage is controlled by the jet needle and the needle jet. At one time all carburetors came with adjustable jet needles. Once the smog ***** got involved, fixed-position needles became the standard. Jet kits will usually include new needles that can be raised (to richen mixture) or lowered (to make it leaner) to suit or, less often, shims to change the height of your stock needles.
To evaluate the needle/needle-jet performance, run the motorcycle in second or third gear. Roll the throttle on from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle only. The engine should accelerate cleanly without sputtering or bogging. If so, you're all done with the midrange; if it doesn't, you'll need to do some experimenting to determine if the needle position is too rich or too lean. Assuming you've installed adjustable needles from the kit, begin your experiments by trying some alternative needle-clip positions, perhaps a step richer to begin with. If that makes the situation worse, try a step leaner. If the jetting is stock and problems crop up, it's time to order the appropriate jet kit.
Top end; 3/4 to wide-open
Main jets (bottom) may be exchanged for larger or smaller size to make the mixture richer (a greater amount of fuel mixed with the incoming air)) or leaner (less fuel) at full throttle.
At this stage of the game, the majority of the fuel flow is controlled by the main jet (remember some fuel is still flowing through the pilot jet). The time-honored method of determining main-jet size is via a plug chop. If you've never done one, a plug chop is pretty simple. Start with new spark plugs. Run the bike flat out (full throttle), in as high a gear as possible, for eight to 10 seconds (don't hold the bike at the rev limiter, as it'll give you a false reading). Without cutting the throttle or slowing down, simultaneously pull in the clutch and hit the kill switch. Coast the bike to a stop and remove the plug(s). The plug insulator should be tan to grayish-white. A white plug indicates a lean mixture; a dark gray or black one means it's rich. You then select the main-jet size accordingly.
Is It Lean or Rich?
One of the reasons I'm so stoked about jet kits is because they remove 95 percent of the guesswork. Be that as it may, even the best kits require some fine-tuning. Essentially a jetting problem can always be reduced to one of two choices: Is it lean or is it rich?
To determine if the bike is lean (to little fuel for the amount of air reaching the engine through the carburetor) at any given throttle opening, partially cover the air-filter intake with a piece of duct tape; if the carburetion improves, it's running lean. If you suspect the bike is running rich (too much fuel in the air-fuel mixture)), remove the airbox top or the air cleaner element; if the changes are for the better, the bike was running too rich.
If your bike is equipped with a manual fuel shut-off, take the bike for a ride with the fuel turned off. If it runs worse as the float bowl drains, it's lean. If it gets better, it's rich.
Troubleshooting
A lean condition is the end result of too little fuel and too much air. Slightly lean conditions create drivability problems. Worst-case scenario: Lean conditions can and do destroy engines. Holes in the pistons, burnt valves and trashed main bearings are the direct result of lean mixtures.
Rich mixtures are the end result of too much fuel and too little air. Rich mixtures waste fuel, contribute to carbon buildup and pollute the air.
Typical Lean Conditions:
- Poor acceleration; the engine feels flat.
- The engine won't respond when the throttle is snapped open, but it picks up speed as the throttle is closed. (A too-large main jet also mimics this symptom.)
- The engine runs hot, knocks, pings and overheats.
- The engine surges or hunts when cruising at part-throttle.
- Popping or spitting through the carb occurs when the throttle is opened. Or popping and spitting occurs through the pipe on deceleration with a closed throttle.
- The engine runs better in warm weather, worse in cool.
- Performance gets worse when the air filter is removed.
Typical Rich Conditions
- Engine acceleration is flat and uneven and loses that "crisp" feel.
- The engine "eight-strokes" as it loads up and skips combustion cycles.
- The engine's idle is rough or lumpy, and the engine won't return to idle without "blipping" the throttle.
- The throttle needs to be open continuously to maintain acceleration.
- Black, sooty plugs, a sooty exhaust pipe and black smoke from the tailpipe that stinks of unburned fuel.
- Poor fuel economy.
- The engine works better when cold. Performance falls off as it warms up or the ambient temperature rises.
- Engine performance improves when the air cleaner is removed.</end quote></div>
Here this may help..could stand to be attached to every thread:
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: 2manytoys
Thanks smb05
I was going to add the carb circuits but did not want to be too difficult for the average person so I did not include it. In one of the sentences that I wrote I meant to say lower the clip NOT lower the needle. Ok so heres the beginners guide to jetting and if you have any driveability problems this can help find your problem.
Pilot circuit; 0 to 1/4 throttle
Start by bringing the engine up to operating temperature. Open the throttle slightly. Does the engine pick up speed smoothly? If it doesn't, the fuel-mixture screw may be out of adjustment or the pilot jet may be either too small or too large. To determine the pilot screw setting, adjust the idle-speed screw so that the engine is idling slightly fast, somewhere between 10 and 20 percent above the recommended idle speed. Using either the manufacturer's or the jet kit's recommended pilot screw setting as a starting point, turn the fuel screw left or right between 1/4 and 1/2 of a turn. Select the screw position where the engine speed increase is the greatest. Readjust the idle speed to the correct level.
Next, take the bike for a ride, preferably on a relatively quiet, straight section of road. Using your throttle index, run the bike at 1/4 throttle. If the pilot jetting is correct, the engine should run smoothly, and it should be easy to maintain a constant speed without varying the throttle position. If the bike surges or hunts, the pilot jet is probably too small (lean). Other indications that the pilot circuit is lean are popping or spitting through the carburetor when the throttle is opened and popping or backfiring through the exhaust when the throttle is shut. If the pilot circuit is rich, the engine will have a rough idle or may not return to idle without "blipping" the throttle. You may also notice a distinct smell of raw fuel and some eye irritation from the exhaust.
Low- to high-speed transition; 1/4 to 3/8 throttle
Although the throttle cutaway plays a significant role between 1/4 and 3/8 throttle, it is seldom changed when rejetting a streetbike, particularly a cruiser. For that reason I'll gloss over it. Basically the only time the cutaway needs changing is when the transition from the low-speed fuel circuit (pilot jet) to the high-speed circuit (needle, needle jet and main jet) gets seriously out of whack.
Medium throttle opening; 1/4 to 3/4 throttle
The fuel delivery at this stage is controlled by the jet needle and the needle jet. At one time all carburetors came with adjustable jet needles. Once the smog ***** got involved, fixed-position needles became the standard. Jet kits will usually include new needles that can be raised (to richen mixture) or lowered (to make it leaner) to suit or, less often, shims to change the height of your stock needles.
To evaluate the needle/needle-jet performance, run the motorcycle in second or third gear. Roll the throttle on from 1/4 to 1/2 throttle only. The engine should accelerate cleanly without sputtering or bogging. If so, you're all done with the midrange; if it doesn't, you'll need to do some experimenting to determine if the needle position is too rich or too lean. Assuming you've installed adjustable needles from the kit, begin your experiments by trying some alternative needle-clip positions, perhaps a step richer to begin with. If that makes the situation worse, try a step leaner. If the jetting is stock and problems crop up, it's time to order the appropriate jet kit.
Top end; 3/4 to wide-open
Main jets (bottom) may be exchanged for larger or smaller size to make the mixture richer (a greater amount of fuel mixed with the incoming air)) or leaner (less fuel) at full throttle.
At this stage of the game, the majority of the fuel flow is controlled by the main jet (remember some fuel is still flowing through the pilot jet). The time-honored method of determining main-jet size is via a plug chop. If you've never done one, a plug chop is pretty simple. Start with new spark plugs. Run the bike flat out (full throttle), in as high a gear as possible, for eight to 10 seconds (don't hold the bike at the rev limiter, as it'll give you a false reading). Without cutting the throttle or slowing down, simultaneously pull in the clutch and hit the kill switch. Coast the bike to a stop and remove the plug(s). The plug insulator should be tan to grayish-white. A white plug indicates a lean mixture; a dark gray or black one means it's rich. You then select the main-jet size accordingly.
Is It Lean or Rich?
One of the reasons I'm so stoked about jet kits is because they remove 95 percent of the guesswork. Be that as it may, even the best kits require some fine-tuning. Essentially a jetting problem can always be reduced to one of two choices: Is it lean or is it rich?
To determine if the bike is lean (to little fuel for the amount of air reaching the engine through the carburetor) at any given throttle opening, partially cover the air-filter intake with a piece of duct tape; if the carburetion improves, it's running lean. If you suspect the bike is running rich (too much fuel in the air-fuel mixture)), remove the airbox top or the air cleaner element; if the changes are for the better, the bike was running too rich.
If your bike is equipped with a manual fuel shut-off, take the bike for a ride with the fuel turned off. If it runs worse as the float bowl drains, it's lean. If it gets better, it's rich.
Troubleshooting
A lean condition is the end result of too little fuel and too much air. Slightly lean conditions create drivability problems. Worst-case scenario: Lean conditions can and do destroy engines. Holes in the pistons, burnt valves and trashed main bearings are the direct result of lean mixtures.
Rich mixtures are the end result of too much fuel and too little air. Rich mixtures waste fuel, contribute to carbon buildup and pollute the air.
Typical Lean Conditions:
- Poor acceleration; the engine feels flat.
- The engine won't respond when the throttle is snapped open, but it picks up speed as the throttle is closed. (A too-large main jet also mimics this symptom.)
- The engine runs hot, knocks, pings and overheats.
- The engine surges or hunts when cruising at part-throttle.
- Popping or spitting through the carb occurs when the throttle is opened. Or popping and spitting occurs through the pipe on deceleration with a closed throttle.
- The engine runs better in warm weather, worse in cool.
- Performance gets worse when the air filter is removed.
Typical Rich Conditions
- Engine acceleration is flat and uneven and loses that "crisp" feel.
- The engine "eight-strokes" as it loads up and skips combustion cycles.
- The engine's idle is rough or lumpy, and the engine won't return to idle without "blipping" the throttle.
- The throttle needs to be open continuously to maintain acceleration.
- Black, sooty plugs, a sooty exhaust pipe and black smoke from the tailpipe that stinks of unburned fuel.
- Poor fuel economy.
- The engine works better when cold. Performance falls off as it warms up or the ambient temperature rises.
- Engine performance improves when the air cleaner is removed.</end quote></div>
Sep 25, 2008 | 11:26 PM
#112
Trailblazer
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Eiger jetting, stock is 122! WAY too lean
It does it after about 4-5 feet of operation. Falls flat on its face then starts sputtering. Only on acceleration. Putting the choke on makes no difference. What actually pulls the needle up? When I put the spring and diaphragm and bladder back in I caught myself asking what actually pulls the needle up and how but did not ponder too much longer about it. I am thinking that I may have left something loose there perhaps. I did not want to have to pull that booger apart twice but it looks like I have no other choice. I will start first thing in the morning.
Sep 26, 2008 | 05:17 AM
#115
Trailblazer
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Eiger jetting, stock is 122! WAY too lean
It sits in and is lifted by the diaphragm..
http://www.cyclepartsnation.co...bybrand/1/Suzuki.aspx
http://www.lonestaratv.com/inf...ion/carb%20clinic.htm
http://myural.com/keihin_32cvk_disassembly.htm
Those should show ya what's in there and give idea what order they go in.
http://www.cyclepartsnation.co...bybrand/1/Suzuki.aspx
http://www.lonestaratv.com/inf...ion/carb%20clinic.htm
http://myural.com/keihin_32cvk_disassembly.htm
Those should show ya what's in there and give idea what order they go in.
Sep 26, 2008 | 12:32 PM
#116
Trailblazer
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Eiger jetting, stock is 122! WAY too lean
Thanks, I have studied that last one for weeks before I even attempted this chore. I found that a new spring cost $4.83 so I may just put a new one in and say to heck with it. But I would hate to lose the "out of the Hole" punch that I gained from clipping the spring. I could tell a major difference. I still don't think I clipped too much off because I only removed about 3 coils or one inch from it. Maybe I didn't get the diaphragm lined up or something. Oh well lets go dive in and do this again. Wish me luck.
Sep 26, 2008 | 04:38 PM
#118
Trailblazer
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Eiger jetting, stock is 122! WAY too lean
GREAT NEWS!! I took everything back apart AGAIN and found a 135 jet at the local thief shop, installed it and decided to go back through the carb and clean everything again just to be sure. When I removed the bladder cap I noticed that I had put the needle holder on the cap side of the spring instead of the needle side. I double checked the to make sure the bladder was seated properly and reinstalled the top. Took it out for a test run after about 10 minutes of praying for the best and OH MY GOODNESS this is a new machine. Pulls the front wheels about 2 inches in first and has considerable front end rise all the way through 5th. Hills I use to have to take in 2nd. now am doing in 3rd. and 4th. This is amazing and all for $3.00. I probably could have gotten away with the 140 main.(Just got scared). These mods had to have increased the output by at least 3 h.p. I have done all the same mods on my wifes TTR-125 and it has noticeable more power also. Let me join the rest of the clan by saying thanks askafari. It has made me think differently about the little Eiger that could.
Sep 26, 2008 | 10:07 PM
#120
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Eiger jetting, stock is 122! WAY too lean
I sure did miss a lot in just a few days. Sorry to hear about your problems bro but glad to hear you got it ironed out. Reading the rest of your post was like Deja vu. Man! I was getting wood reading the second half. I need to get back out and ride!!!!!!! I need to go up a couple more jets; need more fuel, more speed!!!!!!!