Z-400
#11
04-30-2002, 04:16 PM
I'm not argueing, I'm just trying to make my point. I never said it couldnt be 33hp, I just said it didn't sound right. Ecpecially if the same place dyno'd a ex at 31. I am not a fool, nor am I trying to talk up the Z to be the "best quad ever", I am just leery about believing anything about 'zukis "mystery quad", at LEAST until I actually get to see one in person..
BTW, I'm not killing the messenger, just "roughing him up a bit" [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
BTW, I'm not killing the messenger, just "roughing him up a bit" [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
#12
04-30-2002, 04:23 PM
Sounds like CT has a pretty optimistic dyno, if a stock 400EX is putting out 31 hp. Let's start with the XR400.
SAE on an XR400 is 32.5 -- typical loss to-the-ground is 15%, which equates to 27.6, which happens to be what White Bros. dyno showed. Now, back to 400EX, which has a milder cam -- and on the W/B dyno it pulled 24 hp.
Finally, the April 2001 edition of 4-Whl ATV Action printed a "dyno day" at K&N's facility, where they tried a variety of bolt-on and tuning mods to the EX. Their stock baseline was 26.3 hp.
Moving on (and referencing my comment this morning in the 'Compared to a Raptor' thread), the DRZ400S SAE power is 39.5; assuming @ 10% loss because of detuning, we're looking at 35.5; extrapolating typical losses, to-the-ground power should be just over 30. Which is 5hp (20%) more than the W/B and ATV Action average for the 400EX.
This is my guess/calculation for now. In a week and a half I'll know the truth, and 2hp, 5hp, 7hp edge... it won't matter. I'll just be rippin' on a SUZUKI sportquad.
SAE on an XR400 is 32.5 -- typical loss to-the-ground is 15%, which equates to 27.6, which happens to be what White Bros. dyno showed. Now, back to 400EX, which has a milder cam -- and on the W/B dyno it pulled 24 hp.
Finally, the April 2001 edition of 4-Whl ATV Action printed a "dyno day" at K&N's facility, where they tried a variety of bolt-on and tuning mods to the EX. Their stock baseline was 26.3 hp.
Moving on (and referencing my comment this morning in the 'Compared to a Raptor' thread), the DRZ400S SAE power is 39.5; assuming @ 10% loss because of detuning, we're looking at 35.5; extrapolating typical losses, to-the-ground power should be just over 30. Which is 5hp (20%) more than the W/B and ATV Action average for the 400EX.
This is my guess/calculation for now. In a week and a half I'll know the truth, and 2hp, 5hp, 7hp edge... it won't matter. I'll just be rippin' on a SUZUKI sportquad.
#13
04-30-2002, 05:28 PM
#14
04-30-2002, 05:34 PM
#15
05-01-2002, 01:19 AM
First of all, I had a 2000 DRZ400E and it put out 38-39 stock, they had a street model too, it put out like 31 stock, go to suzuki's web site, look up both DRZ's and then look at the quad, the engine in the quad it the same as the street model, which puts out 31 or so hp! The 38-39 hp engine on the dirt only model is alot different then the quad engine, biggest differences are....
flat slide pumper cab vs CV carb
12.2-1 comp vs 11-1 comp
lower rev limiter
different cams
and differences in the gearing
I had the bike for two years and did nothing but look into this stuff
NOW,.. IN NO WAY AM I PUTTING DOWN THE SUZUKI at all, I am a HUGE zuk fan, I loved the DRZ, but look at the facts and you can see 31-32 hp stock is what that quad will be.
Now, you can buy the parts from the other model and bolt them right on and make 40 hp easy, there is also tons of aftermarket already made for that motor. I can tell you in my opinion, this quad will be power wise, right in the middle of a raptor and a 400ex.
flat slide pumper cab vs CV carb
12.2-1 comp vs 11-1 comp
lower rev limiter
different cams
and differences in the gearing
I had the bike for two years and did nothing but look into this stuff
NOW,.. IN NO WAY AM I PUTTING DOWN THE SUZUKI at all, I am a HUGE zuk fan, I loved the DRZ, but look at the facts and you can see 31-32 hp stock is what that quad will be.
Now, you can buy the parts from the other model and bolt them right on and make 40 hp easy, there is also tons of aftermarket already made for that motor. I can tell you in my opinion, this quad will be power wise, right in the middle of a raptor and a 400ex.
#16
05-01-2002, 02:57 AM
RaptorRidr660R,
According to the MSO at the dealer, the "S" model DRZ puts out 39+ hp and the "E" model puts out 41. Yes, the principal difference, like I said, is the compression and carburetor. Allowing for milder cams, or, as I put it, "10% loss because of detuning," hp at the flywheel is 35+. It could be there will be other differences that result in lower numbers, but I was speculating that the detuning regimen would be similar to Honda's XR400-to-400EX.
Basically, I was making two points: CT's dyno is optimistic, and I don't believe the Z400 will prove to have a mere 7% (33 vs. 31) rwhp advantage over the 400EX. If the ride report in 4wheelatv is to be believed, the difference -- as most of us have hoped -- is much greater.
According to the MSO at the dealer, the "S" model DRZ puts out 39+ hp and the "E" model puts out 41. Yes, the principal difference, like I said, is the compression and carburetor. Allowing for milder cams, or, as I put it, "10% loss because of detuning," hp at the flywheel is 35+. It could be there will be other differences that result in lower numbers, but I was speculating that the detuning regimen would be similar to Honda's XR400-to-400EX.
Basically, I was making two points: CT's dyno is optimistic, and I don't believe the Z400 will prove to have a mere 7% (33 vs. 31) rwhp advantage over the 400EX. If the ride report in 4wheelatv is to be believed, the difference -- as most of us have hoped -- is much greater.
#17
05-01-2002, 03:08 AM
lateapex,,
You are wasting you breath telling this to anybody with 660 or raptor in their nickname.. I am SO tired of hearing people (Raptor owners) talk crap about this quad. How in the HELL anyone could honestly believe, as underpowered as the honda 400 is, a NEW quad as hyped up as the Z400 would almost be identical in power. READ THE REVIEWS! If it makes almost the same power as a 400ex, the why is it (seemilgy) so much faster? CALM DOWN, Raptor owners, you have nothing to lose. The Z400 WON'T be faster/more powerful, OKAY? I guess I would get pretty defensive too if I was forced to realize I spent 6500 bucks on a "piece".
You are wasting you breath telling this to anybody with 660 or raptor in their nickname.. I am SO tired of hearing people (Raptor owners) talk crap about this quad. How in the HELL anyone could honestly believe, as underpowered as the honda 400 is, a NEW quad as hyped up as the Z400 would almost be identical in power. READ THE REVIEWS! If it makes almost the same power as a 400ex, the why is it (seemilgy) so much faster? CALM DOWN, Raptor owners, you have nothing to lose. The Z400 WON'T be faster/more powerful, OKAY? I guess I would get pretty defensive too if I was forced to realize I spent 6500 bucks on a "piece".
#18
05-01-2002, 04:02 AM
Jeeze Binfordw calm down already! I'm an evil overbearing egotistical Raptor owner and I hope the new Zuk makes more power than the Raptor. I just wont hold my breath. The quads need to produce at least even numbers with their motorcycle counterparts and if Suzuki has the cajones or talent to make it so then more power to them. I'd love for the Raptor to make 50+ hp stock and the only way it'll ever happen is for some mfr to make that step and not detune their quads. Will it spank raptors? I doubt it. I dont think the machine is aimed at raptors. I think it's going to obsolete the 400ex. Lets hope this is suzuki's first step and their next will be a 650+ cc. If they build it we will buy it. You know just because someone rides something you dont like doesnt mean they're out to get you.
#19
05-02-2002, 11:44 AM
I think you are right on there Mr45auto. Suzuki's killer new line-up looks to me like it is aimed right at Honda. They are supposed to come out with an entry level sport version of the Ozark 250 to go up against the 250 EX too. Go Suzuki!! A big bore 650, both a sport and a sport/utility will probably follow next year...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
#20
05-02-2002, 10:27 PM
I owned a DRZ and know alot about it, if you don't believe me, go to thumpertalk.com and ask them in the greatest DRZ forum around, they can give you #'s I did, I am not making fun of it, I like suzuki more then i do yamaha, they DRZ was the best bike i ever owned, but you are off on the #'s and I was just informing you, dealers will tell you anything to get you to buy! Just go to that site and ask them for the stock HP #'s. I have a dirt bike magazine right in front of me and the 400 and the 400E put out 38 at the wheel stock! S was a few less..........Don't think just cuz i have a raptor I think it is the greatest thing in the world, I know it is not, I like bikes better anyways, I needed the quad to ride with my 30 quad owning friends and I wanted a 4 stroke and it was there so I bought it.....