Everything PolarisEater has said is true. Besides, trail maps are nice, but stop being such a candy!

 

Hey, I'm just trying to help out! I'f yall want to keep riding there. That is fine with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

POLARISEATER, I understand what you are doing. The more people that ride there, the more money they(HMT) have to expand. Before long we will have to pay to ride no matter what. It seems to these freaking people that money is not an issue. Huh, must be nice. Looks like there all from up north anyway. Forget them idiot's, I would rather that they stay over at HMT anyway. Every time I get near someone from NY or NJ I want to stomp a mud hole in someone. Of course it would be fun to do that. It has every time before.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]: [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

 

I got to tell you this is the first time I have heard anyone complain about HM at all except for unrelated stuff from those who live right there, and even there complaints are outnumbered by their praise for what it (HM) has done for the local economy.

Personally I absolutely loved the place and if you know anything about the troubles we have riding here in NJ you would immediately understand why. Then everyone I have heard from who has been there liked it also so I never gave much thought to any problems.

To be fair I also can understand the issues the author of this thread has with them as well, and after riding some absolutely beautifull trails outside of the HM system with a couple of the locals in the past I can see where there was plenty of places to ride in these areas long before the HM system was set up.

Also in talking with some of the locals I found that due to the ever changing and many times declining mine companies in this area that employ a serious amount and % of the residents there that the increase in their economy far outweighs any negatives present.

Still when I look at the past and now current conditions here where places were abundant and now riding is a serious crime and fines and costs can surpass $1,000 easily I can really appreciate that places like HM exist, and hope that as overdevelopment and sprawl continue to eat up good riding areas etc there are many more around to survive long enough for any riders in the future.

So maybe there is nothing wrong with the idea of riding outside of the HM trails, but I also see that there is more to be gained in the long run by all thru supporting them and others like them. I mean c'mon its not all that expensive in the first place.

 

Sky I read your post three times, and still cant figure one nice thing to say in reply to it [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Would you rather have Hovnanian or US homes developing the area or HM setting up trails systems?

I know you guys down there (oh btw that war ended well over a hundred+ years ago duh) dont have as much a problem with places to ride and being criminalized by the authorities, but it is something that is happening around the country, and if things continue the way they are heading it will be a sad reality pretty much everyware.

There used to safe, good, and free places to ride around here in the past too so I can understand what your hoping to preserve, but in a society where money is the "only" factor these areas dry up soon as the local economy allows values to go high enough to cause the developers and other concerns to come in like a bunch of sharks homing in on the smell of blood in the water, and then its a battle of who has the most $$$ and political pull.

I hope this never happens anyware in the future, but if it does any sizable riding areas will be a blessing.

Now about your getting cleaned up from your trip into the mud [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Polariseater,

No man, I read your post. You called the place a rip-off. I think its an incredible value! Do you know what the only ATV dirtbike ride park in NJ charges? They want $75 a day. Or $300 a year to ride on their 20 measly acres. I wont go there because that's a rip-off and they get insulted when I say that. No, I drive 3 hours to get to someplace that only costs $35 a day or $250 a year. They have about 30 miles of trails spread out over 20 square miles.

Ok so what you're saying is, you don't need the place. Cool. I can dig that. I do. I wouldn't go down there and start riding on some unmarked trail. Who knows whether I would ever get back? I often ride alone and I cover a lot of miles in a day. My point is, just because you don't need it does not make it a rip-off. Did you know they offer a $25 a year membership for instate residents? To ride on 500 miles of trails?

Seriously though, you should know what is really shutting down land to ATV use. And don't take this the wrong way. I'm not accusing you of anything. But many folks who want to ride for free also want to ride double and don't wear helmets; the things they're not allowd to do on organized trail systems like HMT. Its because of folks like that that go on to sue (or their families sue) after they break their necks. Then the land owners get pissed off and put up fences and gates. Its only thru the organized trail systems that you are required to sign a waiver that says you can't sue no matter what that we continue to ride on many tracts of land. I hate living in a land where people believe that if I stub my toe on your property, smehow you're responsable. You're buddy may be perfectly content to risk his neck every day and would never sue anyone. But after he dies, just wait to see who his parents will sue especially if he is a minor. "You negligent coal company! You tempted my boy with that big hill!" and because he was a minor, they will win. Its a fact and it happens everyday. The only reason why my ride club exists (Tower City Trail Riders Inc) is because folks got together and made a membership mandatory club where you have to sign a waiver to ride there. And they have to prove to the land owner that they are patrolling and keeping anyone who did not sign the waiver off his land. Otherwise, he will shut them down.

I'm sorry to push my point so hard, but I really think HM is great and a bargain.


And now to take aim at Skyjarvis: You don't like us damn yankees, do yuh? You think you scare me with a threat of splashing me with a little mud? Dude, I eat mud for breakfast, lunch, and sometimes even for dinner. So bring it on! LOL. If you met me on the trail, you would never peg me as from "Joyzee". I lived in NC for a year and love the south! (except for Clinton's home town; they can go to H_ll.) Ha!

 

Cowsaki, right on great reply. And that mud you speak of, that's Pa coal muck let the good ole boy
chew on some of that crude for a while. Bring on that WV mud thats like water up here in TC land

 

Being a citizen of the hatfield / Mccoy area I would like to chime in with my opinion on the subject. As a boy I rode all of the so-called "free" trails and enjoyed them very much. The problem is the coal and land companies have never gave anyone permission for any of this "free" trail riding. Coal and land companies are not gonna be held accountable for someone getting hurt while trespassing unless they put potential hazards in the way like unmarked barbed wire or wire across the road. A coal company decides to mine their land or a land company decides to log their land and your so-called "free" riding is instantly gone. Step in the Hatfield / Mccoy organization and we finally have organized, LEGAL riding on these same lands. You wanna pack your gun around and have your beer cooler on the racks? Then you better find another place to ride. Most people do not wanna take or haul chainsaws while out on their ride for obvious reasons. On trails that are not maintained you will find your riding day cut short by fallen trees across the path / road. The novelty of the trails 99% of the time being cleared alone is worth the cost to ride the Hatfield / Mccoy trails. The out of state people that ride here realize the true gem we have for riding. Half of the complainers are the in state people that take what they have for granted. What really gets me is these same complainers are riding a $7-8K atv, being pulled by a $25-30K gas hog truck and trailer combo. The other half of the in state complainers online trying to make a buck for "tour" or "guide" services in places other than the Hatfield / Mccoy trails.
Gary

 

O my...seem like I may be one of the few that actually have never had to pay to ride....I must be in the best spot in America cause I can ride double up to the conservation officer with no helmet to ask questions about propery that boarders ours and drive up to the town cop and B.S. ride up to the gas station and fill up then head down some local trails and put maybe 50 miles on the quad no problem....

 

I found no laws in PA concerning riding 2-up on an atv designed to be rode by 1 operator.
Helmets = Quote "It is illegal to operate an atv without a securely fastened helmet on the head of the operator.
Operation = On highways or streets for a short distance when necessary to cross a bridge or culvert. You can also ride on the highways during emergency situations, special events, or if your roads are designated as "atv roads".
So you are illegally riding with no helmet...so is the road into town designated as one of the beforementioned caterogories under your state law? If no, you are riding illegally.