John,
WELL said my friend.You and I are on the same page here.I had an older guy come into the dealership today and he belonged to a cycle club,he had NOTHING good to say about the OTHER well known Michigan cycle club or its President.He told me some horror stories I will share with you in the near future.

Bill

 

I've got a story or two myself to share. Really wish we (as two groups supposedly enjoying the same experience in the same place) could sit down and break bread somewhere and get this out in the open before it explodes in a state ORV board meeting which is the WRONG place for drawn out disagreememt(if there is any). My last comment has to do with the fact that I've mentioned folks going 'on the record' so that we do not rehash old issues that clubs have already taken a position on and that's frankly, it.

This, to me, is the only way any discussion is going to move forward, so that we may start out talking in terms of that outline and not get off track. One example is my mention of 'they won't be satisfied with one or two motorcycle only trails'; which isn't fair to say without KNOWING how they view the future use of the system.

I also believe that we should have confidence going in that our leaders have seen these issues coming down the road for a long time now and are ready to assure us all that their close relationships have already bred solutions to these matters that would be reflected in such a meeting of the combined rank and file. Please let us know beforehand what these other club positions are, so that we can be instantly less emotional when we formulate our responses and possible solutions to this important problem.

We are literally trying to determine today how many areas will be open for alternate forms of recreation in the future. Our grandchildren may very well be travelling in narrow side-by-side(which is a great way to enjoy the outdoors with someone else) low-impact vehicles that will be shut out from relatively large areas that would be set aside TODAY for two foot maintenance requirements. If you think things are bad today, try and cut trees on an existing trail in 2020.

I've said enough!

John

 

Well I've been reading over this post for the last few weeks, and I must say that it's been interesting. I just thought I'd through my 2 cents in concerning the 24" trails vs the 50". I just don't see how it's fair that dirtbike users, and ATV users pay the same amount for their ORV sticker, yet dirtbikes have access to alot more trails than ATV's. If you look at the ORV system in Michigan, Dirtbikes have access to all the trails. Whereas ATV's are designated to specific trails. I'd love to see all the ORV trails in Michigan opened to at least 50", giving full access to all ORV users, but I don't see that ever happening. I mean let's face it, out of all the Motorized Recreational users in Michigan, ATV's are the red headed step child. Snowmobiles have WAAAAAY more freedom, and not only do dirtbikes have trails specifically for them, they have access to all ATV trails and ORV routes. I may be wrong on this, but from what I've seen in other chat rooms and such, the general consensous is ATV's are the Bad guys. We're the ones responsible for destroying the trails, and until ATV's came on the scene people on dirtbikes had alot more freedom. The last statement may actually be true, since I remember being a kid and riding my dirtbike pretty much anywhere I wanted. Who knows though I may have been doing this illegally. Anyway, I look forward to any responses. Later.

 

Twinshot,

"I'd love to see ALL the trails in Michigan opened up to 50 inches minimum............"

How SOON would you like the discussion to begin and in what manner do you think it should be initiated? How much do you want to know about EVERYONE'S position? How many trails and where, (are?) you willing to give up forever for compromise sake if things get ugly? Who is going to do this massive job with what equipment? Is it the DNR, a club or just some hillbilly from Vicksburg like me that is going to back you up?(that ought to scare the he11 out of you in itself!)

Thanks for your opinion; just kind of feel that folks have heard enough of me for a while............................

Regards,

John

 

Good points, I think the biggest question is like you said, Who is going to do this massive job with what equipment? Because we can all give our opinions, but without the equipment and manpower, it's pretty much useless. I think my biggest problem is I really don't know where to go from here. I've only been in riding for about 2 years now, and it seems like the more I learn the more I sit back scratch my head say, "well, that doesn't seem right." I'd be more than willing to do my part and help out. I just need somebody to point me in the right direction.

I have a few other questions that somebody might be able to answer.
1. Does anybody know when the "closed unless posted open" rule came into effect? and why is it different from the UP when we are all the same state? Or is the law different in each county? Cause I've heard of certain counties where ATV's are pretty much allowed to go where they want.
For instance Montmorency county, I was at the DNR station parked at the trailhead getting ready to ride when I saw some guy on his quad riding down the side of the road, right next the DNR station.

 

Twinshot,

I couldn't agree more and in answer to your question about the right direction, would say that if you could see your way clear to spend the $20 yearly dues that MATVA asks for, I'd do it. I can't see myself agreeing 100% with ANY club I'd join, but also know that if Rich and a number of other people had not stepped up when they did, our sport in the state of Michigan would be in one heck of a lot worse shape than it is today. You certainly could say the same about the CCC.

I e-mailed a fellow out west that was heavily involved in various trail issues and asked him about club cooperation. I just recieved an answer today:

"I own and ride trailbikes, ATV's,snowmobiles and horses, and belong to the clubs of each group and I participate in their activities and am considered one of them. I have insisted that the best way to have any opportunities is for the groups to work together. As things come up, it is a CONSTANT battle to keep them from splitting up. They have to see projects that benefit EACH group to stay together. Sorry, I don't have a magic formula."

I'm sorry, but that's just plain sad when so much is at stake for those that'll follow us. Maybe sometimes you just have to speak out for what's right, regardless of who the other person is and how people in similiar positions at whatever level may perceive you. This goes for ALL of us.

John

 

Two things- The MATVA needs to become the dominant ORV representative group for Mi. by expanding it's membership above the CCC. Number of quad owners vs. dirt bike owners should make this relatively easy. This will put the ATV interests first. Single usage trails are a thing of the past. There are WAY to many people and types of recreational vehicles to support that mindset.
Second we need to lobby for the reinstatement of "open unless posted " for the LP. It is absolutely ludicrous that a 14 /15 year old puke can ride his 4"wheeled moped down major roads, but I cannot ride my quad down the side of a gravel road. I'd even take it a step further and push for street legal licensing. If you can make and license a trike, why can't we license our quads. We even have precedent set by other states (think of the tax dollars, you scummy politicians...).I think a side effect of more available twotracks, etc. would be less pressure on the narrow trails. A boon for the cycle guys.
I'm gonna listen too my own preaching. Membership dues into the MATVA in the next two weeks...

 

Boss,
I like and respect your idea's.I'd also like to have back the L.P for ATV riding.Prior to 1991,I used to take my ATVs to my in-laws place in Marion Mi[near Cadillac]and ride just about any Forest rode I wanted.Thanks to NO ONE representing the ATVer and a lack of any leadership on OUR [ATVers] side,we lost the L.P.in 91.

I also agree that for the most part,the single track trail is a thing of the past,especially giving the FACT that ATVers out number cycles about 3-1 in our State of Michigan.

Keep up the good work and get that check into MATVA.

Bill

 

It's coming. My wife won't raise our allowances yet. I keep trying different tactics... Yea, I'm whipped, but if I ran the finances we'd be in hock up to our eyeballs!