Minnesota's trails are in danger of being closed by a radical group known as MRR. The MNDNR has lost a suit in court filed by the MRR requiring the state to do an enviromental impact study before opening any new trails. The article was in the MPLS Star and Tribune. Sorry I don't have the link, I'll try to find it soon. This really has me P.O.'d. My plan would be to do like the farmers a few years back when they drove their tractors to the capital and had a parade on the street. We should gather infront of the capital and have a parade of several thousand wheelers and show them that if we had a place to ride, we wouldn't have to resort to riding on county roads, city streets, and anywhere else it's illegal. We pay our registration fees to pay for these trails. It's nothing more than a direct attack on ATV's. There are many other proposals at the county levels as well. Some trying to ban atv's unless you have atleast 10 acres of land to ride on. It sounds as though the MNDNR is going to appeal the case. If this falls apart, we should really consider having a parade in Governor Goofy's front yard. Any takers?

 

I’d love to see that – 2000 quads circling the Capital, - 1900 of them peacefully and respectfully protesting while staying in line and being safe – with about 100 or so butt-heads going ape-poop like a bunch of over intoxicated Indigenous Americans of yester-year riding in circles knocking down the mail boxes, terrorizing pedestrians, arguing with law enforcement whilst downing a brewski and removing every last bit of sod within eye-sight. Not unlike the percentage of people who are destroying our fewer and fewer riding areas and making us look so bad to Joe Public.

“Pay no attention to the 14 year olds on the 650cc 4x4 jumping the wall through the flower garden “they call out – “that’s them – that aint us.”

“Hey – my boy doesn’t do anything wrong with his 4 wheeler – and I’ll punch anybody in the GD nose who says he does” says Mr. ‘I was a jerk so now I’m risking my sons life so he can be a jerk too’

The snowmobile people won the respect of the public land caretakers by self-policing their own kind and working WITH the concerned groups and government. Until a organized and responsible ATV leadership group steps up to the plate and takes a swing at eliminating the destructive behavior of a few people – we have little foot-hold to argue in our battle to gain additional riding areas.

Maybe someone should go talk to the old snowmobile leaders and see how they did it.

 

hey can I roost vantura?j/k it's a great idea .i'll join ya

 

Lep7mm/WhoDat,

You both brought out some important problems in our sport. First being that we ALL need to keep better track of these people that suddenly turn their focus on basically trying to eliminate us. Networking to CONSTANTLY identify who they are and what they're up to is the only efficient way to expose their ideology quickly enough for effective debate(and hopefully defeat in the eyes of reasonable people). Once they're at the point of suing state depts. over how they do their job; the horse is pretty much already out of the barn regardless of who made who open the door.

Secondly, I agree wholeheartedly with WhoDat that we had better darn sure start taking some clues from other organizations around the world in how they run their organizations, police their own and achieve their goals. Albeit a relatively low impact sport, the smowmobilers have built a trail 'empire' of (dare I say) PRIVATE and public lands that crisscross tens of thousands of miles everywhere there's snow and people. The Quebec provincial govt. and citizenry have COMBINED wheeled and non-wheeled enthusiasts into probably the single largest organization of its kind in the world. What a concept! If this idea sounds great and reasonable to anybody; try bringing it up at most any ORV/OHV advisory board meeting in the snow belt and be prepared for the reaction. Point being that we need to honor the snowmobilers and cyclists that have basically built the system we use today while trying to convince their leadership that maybe pissing off a few loyal 'old-guard' seperatists in the club by banding TOGETHER is the ONLY way to save and build trails for the future. If there has developed a mentality within anybody in any of these groups that they basically can't STAND another form of motorized recreation; these leaders had better start strapping on a set and do what's right for everybody.

My last point is probably wildly unpopular, but when WhoDat mentions how the snowmobilers did it; one thing always comes to mind. The ONLY way we are going to be able to police our own, as the snowmobilers have done(years ago), is to IDENTIFY (with big registration numbers displayed)those that are screwing up our hard work and giving the people above something to talk about. If that is the second item you bring up at the state meeting; you will have probably figured out who stands for what from pretty much everybody in the room (don't expect too many pats on the back).

Again, great points from both of you as these issues SHOULD get folks fired up enough to realize what we all have to lose and gain.

John
'00 SP500

 

this is getting good. One of the many things that has really helped the snowmobiliers is the help from the manufactures in sponsoring events and promoting events, machines, and activities. There is a vast network of places that cater to the snowmobilers. Mostly due to, I feel, is their drive in organizing as a group to show that they, for the most part are responsible riders that can respect the land. There will always be a bad apple in the group. There's not much we can do about that. But the top priority is to convince many riders that they need to organize as well. It takes cooperation at all levels, from the riders, to the state level, to the manufactures to help promote safe, ethical, and responsible riding. It can be fun for all even without blazing the trails at 100 mph. We have some 700 miles of rideable trails for ATV's here in MN with 98% mostly in the northern half of the state. And many of these are closed during the winter months. As outdoor enthusiasts, we do not stand alone in our desire to enjoy our resources. With a lot of work, ATV'ers will some day prove that we can, as well as any other, be stewards of the enviroment. RIDE ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

CORRECTION!(of a quote since deleted)

I remember as a kid seeing the large identification numbers on sleds but believe the state went to significantly smaller stickers since then(if I remember, it had to do with the numbers taking away from the new 'graphics' that the manufacturers were coming out with-----maybe never stated). Our ATV stickers are not registered as a number with a name. Pretty tough to 'police our own' when you have no idea who these folks are.

Unfortunately, in my opinion, for the leaders of all these motorized groups to band together for a common cause would lead to a direct loss of power for some. This loss would not be a life-wrenching change for all of them. Others, as we all know, would rue the day somebody walked up to them and said 'well, I thought you were the PRESIDENT of the so and so club'! This 'perceived' loss of respect is more devastating than you might think for the few of these people whose boss at work or wife/husband at home may pretty much run their daily lives. This relates to the 'strap a set on' comment above that also applies to their old or new members as well that think their form of motorized recreation can't possibly co-exist or ultimately improve if their sticker doesn't read '(blank) permit'.

I'm not trying to kill the clubs as it's great to hang out with like-minded individuals and be proud of your organization. Wouldn't it be great though, to socialize now and then with everybody that uses the trail system and brainstorm new ideas without the leadership of any club taking this association as a direct threat to the way they (or minority cliques within the club) have the system figured out? How much more cooperative do you think state agencies would be to only have to deal with one voice and not hear a bunch of clubs fighting with each other?(which is always denied by most leadership). How much more power would we wield?

I'd really like to hear from people about their views on these issues so that we can learn from each other to build,maintain and protect our trail systems TOGETHER.

John
'00 SP500

 

Our club has a requirement that, to become a member, you must be a member of our state organization called ATVAM. ATVAM is our "one" voice here in MN that goes through the legal battles and tries to ensure our privilege to ride. Part of the dues paid by us to ATVAM comes back into our own club to help structure ourselves and create new riding areas. ATVAM in turn, uses a portion of the fees to help cover the legal costs of the ongoing efforts to keep our areas open. We have a lobbyist who fights for these privileges as well.

As far as the co-habitation of different clubs or forms of recreation, I have contacted a local saddle club to see if they would be interested in joining together with the local atv'ers in maintaining the trails now in place and used by them. Part of my idea was that the atv's would be able to do the maintenance such as cleaning the trails of garbage and filling in ruts created by years of traffic. The responses I received were split 50/50. One of the benefits of this type of joint venture is that the state will recognize a partnership before they will an individual club when it comes to funding or supplementing the costs of the trail maintenance or creation. 3 years ago, the state of MN had $8 million to spend on establishing or maintaining trail networks. This money all comes from the estimated gas taxes paid by off roaders and snowmobilers and the registration fees paid by atv'ers and snowmobilers. Our atv's do need to be registered and display a plate on the back of our machines with atleast one, if not 2 stickers and a registration number. There is an agrcultural and a public registration sticker. Which are needed depends on how the machine will be used.

 

Lep7mm,

Thanks for giving us all another example of how things operate elsewhere Ran out of time. Will post later.

Thanks,

John

 

Lep7mm,

The way the political system is set up now; hiring a lobbyist seems more than justifiable to protect our interests.

Interesting that you feel also that the state is more receptive to unified efforts than individualized agendas! Again, what a concept! Are we the only two people in this country that feel approaching other clubs on this issue might identify those members that are actually preventing this cooperation from happening?

Has anybody out there ever been a member of say a snowmobile AND an atv club? What was the reaction when you approached a motorcycle club and asked to incorporate atv issues into their meetings?(oh, I forgot, nobody that rides cycles, rides quads).Would you even consider doing maintenance on a 4 wheel drive trail if a unified group had figured out that this was the closest trail to you that needed fixing?

Sure would enjoy hearing how these things are done around the country and elsewhere.

John
'00 SP500

 

Michmaniac,
it's not so much that I feel that the state is more receptive, but I know they are. While we were forming our club, we had the President of ATVAM at our meeting as well as other reps from clubs around the state and a Conservation Officer (CO). The efforts here in MN are outstanding to get our trail networks established and keep things legal. The more accessible areas we have to ride, the less likely someone will be on the roads or private property and riding illegally. Too bad more people don't understand this view point. Also, being able to keep things concentrated in designated areas and being able to govern the trails, there is a lower chance of causing enviromental damage as compared to how many thousands of wheelers riding where ever they please.