Spokane Washington- N.Idaho- W.Montana riders lets get together here!
#1163
A biased outdoorsman says the joy of walking is being left in the dust
Off-road rage
Alan Liere
Special to Outdoors
April 2, 2006
A friend recently informed me he is getting a four-wheeler – "for huckleberryin' and mushroomin' and such," he said. He was appropriately apologetic, for he knows how I feel about such things.
"Seems like cheating," I said sadly. "What happened to the boot leather and sweat that used to get you there?"
"I'm not getting any younger," he countered.
"I've got some terrible news for you," I told him. "Getting old is part of the deal. But the sooner you give into it by getting a four-wheeler so you can pick huckleberries, the closer you are to the nursing home."
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I'm not fond of snowmobiles, dirt bikes, and four-wheelers. Yes, I realize that puts me at odds with half the population of Washington and Idaho. If I tell you what I think of Jet Skis, I'll alienate the other half.
Yes, I have ridden them all; I could even afford one or two if I wanted. No, I did not have a bad experience. Despite what I said to my friend, what I really dislike is the ability of these machines to go harshly to places man has no business going – and the careless disregard many riders have for the land they ride on.
The artist, Andy Warhol, said, "I think that having land and not ruining it is the most beautiful art that anybody could ever want to own." I wish I had said that.
I especially wish I had said it to the children of my neighbor recently while they were tearing up my lower pasture with their four-wheelers. Essentially, they were cutting brodies in my new clover just to see the mud fly. What I said to them, delivered on a dead run, was a rather unfriendly version of "GET THE HECK OUT OF THERE!"
My neighbor is a very nice man – a good husband and father, I'm sure – probably better than I. He came quickly from his house to see what the bellowing was about, and he apologized profusely for his children. "I'll make sure they stay on our property," he said.
In theory, if my neighbor wishes to let his children tear up his own land, that's none of my business. The reality, however, was that the ground was soft and the four-wheelers were scarring it horribly. Ruts, erosion, and mud for 15 minutes of noisy thrills. The disturbance will show for a long time. Even if it was on his property, I'd see it from my front porch. And even if I couldn't see it, I'd still be diminished knowing it was there – another rip on nature's canvas.
I wonder about people who ride four-wheelers *****-nilly throughout the countryside, not only on their land but also on public lands where wildlife is trying to make a living. Not just kids – their parents, too. I think something has gone terribly haywire that they'd want to. These individuals are more informed, more sophisticated, more affluent. They understand gigabytes and iPods and video games, but they are terribly out of touch with the natural world. I don't understand why they move to the country.
Another neighbor has built a dirt-bike track on his property, complete with jumps. When he and his children go afield, they are not probing the silence for coyote tracks and turkey feathers and soaring red tail hawks and whitetail sheds, as I do. Amid the dust and the confusion, they do not even see the mallard hen they have scared from her nest on the creek. They do not realize they are destroying winter pheasant habitat. Furthermore, when I mention this, the neighbor looks at me as if I'd just admitted to a fondness for arsonists. He does not seem to understand that everything in nature is attached to everything else.
When it snows, his children crank up their snowmobiles and drive them in mindless ovals across the pasture and creek, into the forest, and back again. They do not go fast, so the adrenaline rush of speed is not their motivation. They can't expect to see anything new, as the wildlife has long ago fled. What, then? Noise for the sake of noise?
In the spring, the grass grows short where it was packed down, and the deer will have to move farther down the valley to bed. I'll yell at these children too, if they come onto my land, but they are really very nice kids, and their mother made me cookies at Christmas.
Sometimes I wonder if it is I who is the most out of touch.
By Alan Liere, Spokesman Review, March 2, 2006.
Off-road rage
Alan Liere
Special to Outdoors
April 2, 2006
A friend recently informed me he is getting a four-wheeler – "for huckleberryin' and mushroomin' and such," he said. He was appropriately apologetic, for he knows how I feel about such things.
"Seems like cheating," I said sadly. "What happened to the boot leather and sweat that used to get you there?"
"I'm not getting any younger," he countered.
"I've got some terrible news for you," I told him. "Getting old is part of the deal. But the sooner you give into it by getting a four-wheeler so you can pick huckleberries, the closer you are to the nursing home."
Advertisement
I'm not fond of snowmobiles, dirt bikes, and four-wheelers. Yes, I realize that puts me at odds with half the population of Washington and Idaho. If I tell you what I think of Jet Skis, I'll alienate the other half.
Yes, I have ridden them all; I could even afford one or two if I wanted. No, I did not have a bad experience. Despite what I said to my friend, what I really dislike is the ability of these machines to go harshly to places man has no business going – and the careless disregard many riders have for the land they ride on.
The artist, Andy Warhol, said, "I think that having land and not ruining it is the most beautiful art that anybody could ever want to own." I wish I had said that.
I especially wish I had said it to the children of my neighbor recently while they were tearing up my lower pasture with their four-wheelers. Essentially, they were cutting brodies in my new clover just to see the mud fly. What I said to them, delivered on a dead run, was a rather unfriendly version of "GET THE HECK OUT OF THERE!"
My neighbor is a very nice man – a good husband and father, I'm sure – probably better than I. He came quickly from his house to see what the bellowing was about, and he apologized profusely for his children. "I'll make sure they stay on our property," he said.
In theory, if my neighbor wishes to let his children tear up his own land, that's none of my business. The reality, however, was that the ground was soft and the four-wheelers were scarring it horribly. Ruts, erosion, and mud for 15 minutes of noisy thrills. The disturbance will show for a long time. Even if it was on his property, I'd see it from my front porch. And even if I couldn't see it, I'd still be diminished knowing it was there – another rip on nature's canvas.
I wonder about people who ride four-wheelers *****-nilly throughout the countryside, not only on their land but also on public lands where wildlife is trying to make a living. Not just kids – their parents, too. I think something has gone terribly haywire that they'd want to. These individuals are more informed, more sophisticated, more affluent. They understand gigabytes and iPods and video games, but they are terribly out of touch with the natural world. I don't understand why they move to the country.
Another neighbor has built a dirt-bike track on his property, complete with jumps. When he and his children go afield, they are not probing the silence for coyote tracks and turkey feathers and soaring red tail hawks and whitetail sheds, as I do. Amid the dust and the confusion, they do not even see the mallard hen they have scared from her nest on the creek. They do not realize they are destroying winter pheasant habitat. Furthermore, when I mention this, the neighbor looks at me as if I'd just admitted to a fondness for arsonists. He does not seem to understand that everything in nature is attached to everything else.
When it snows, his children crank up their snowmobiles and drive them in mindless ovals across the pasture and creek, into the forest, and back again. They do not go fast, so the adrenaline rush of speed is not their motivation. They can't expect to see anything new, as the wildlife has long ago fled. What, then? Noise for the sake of noise?
In the spring, the grass grows short where it was packed down, and the deer will have to move farther down the valley to bed. I'll yell at these children too, if they come onto my land, but they are really very nice kids, and their mother made me cookies at Christmas.
Sometimes I wonder if it is I who is the most out of touch.
By Alan Liere, Spokesman Review, March 2, 2006.
#1164
This may surprise you, but I don't completely disagree with Mr. Liere and his article. I see examples of abuse all the time. Like it or not, the thing that hurts our hobby the most is our own attitudes. Some of us ride where we know we aren't supposed to, cut new trails in, litter, are disrespectful of others that choose to walk or bike etc. All this makes all of us look bad to the general public. I'm not saying that the other side doesn't have their share of bad apples too, there are those that would have us not go into the woods at all except to transplant more wolves and grizzleys there. Unfortunately I don't think there is anything we can do to change the attitudes or opinions of people like that, but we can ask ourselves if what we are doing is going to reflect well on the rest of us. Maybe I shouldn't be tearing up that hillside, or maybe I shouldn't be ripping up this stream bed, or hey while I'm stopped here I could grab that empty beer can or candy wrapper(or not throw it there in the first place). I am guilty of some of these things as well, but if you like riding and you want to keep having places to do it then we need to look at the things we do that hack these other people off and see if we can't do better.
One ironic thing about that article is it sounds like Mr. Liere is a transplant from somewhere else. Now while that in itself doesn't make one a bad person, who wouldn't want to live in a place like this, I see the rapid population growth in this area as being far more detrimental to our great outdoors than just about anything else around here. Being a native, I can remember going fishing on CDA lake on a Saturday in the summer and not feeling like you were on a roller coaster, or going hunting and not seeing a camp set up at every wide spot in the road. Now I have to deal with traffic jams, increasing crime rates, and urban sprawl. I think I'm gonna miss the old summer days with smoke from the grass burning on the horizon.
Another biased outdoorsmans opinion.
One ironic thing about that article is it sounds like Mr. Liere is a transplant from somewhere else. Now while that in itself doesn't make one a bad person, who wouldn't want to live in a place like this, I see the rapid population growth in this area as being far more detrimental to our great outdoors than just about anything else around here. Being a native, I can remember going fishing on CDA lake on a Saturday in the summer and not feeling like you were on a roller coaster, or going hunting and not seeing a camp set up at every wide spot in the road. Now I have to deal with traffic jams, increasing crime rates, and urban sprawl. I think I'm gonna miss the old summer days with smoke from the grass burning on the horizon.
Another biased outdoorsmans opinion.
#1165
Niskibum, very well said. I think you nailed it. This is one of the reasons I have gotten involved in the clubs and the political end of things. I understand that ATVs are not every bodies form of recreation, but it is mine. I wish to protect that right. Conversely, I too am guilty of some those irresponsible behaviors. But that is changing. I enjoy the trails for all the same reasons other users do. I believe that means being a good steward of nature first and foremost. If we don't take responsibility for ourselves or our own actions, then ATVing doesn't have much of a future. There is a place for everything, and by joining a club and being a responsible rider goes a long way toward ensuring our place. You have to compromise, and that's good. ATVs don't belong on a single track hiking trail any more than a locomotive running down the freeway on your commute to work. Fact is there are people that are going to abuse any privilege, but hopefully there are many who don't. I think is essential that each of us do our part. Support you sport, be respectful of other users, and be good stewards. At the same time I'm going to fight for my right to ride, my right to access, and for my place in the recreational community.
-Mark Magill
-VP North Idaho ATV Association
-Northwest Access Alliance member
-Idaho Parks & Rec ATV Safety Instructor
-Coeur d'Alene Dist. OHV Task Force member
-GEM State ATV member
-Mark Magill
-VP North Idaho ATV Association
-Northwest Access Alliance member
-Idaho Parks & Rec ATV Safety Instructor
-Coeur d'Alene Dist. OHV Task Force member
-GEM State ATV member
#1166
Right on, guys. This was my letter to the editor in response to the article. I encourage all of you to respond to the Spokesman Review also.
In response to the article "Off-Road Rage" by Mr Alan Liere:
I wonder if people like Mr Liere understand the concept of sharing. When we were kids, our parents taught us to share with the other kids. Now that we're adults, it's not so much toys as sharing the land, the roads, and the waterways with other people who have every right to use these amenities as the rest of us.
At 40 yrs old, my wife & I enjoy boating, waterskiing, & riding ATVs, & motorcycles. My equipment is within spec, we carry all our garbage out, stay on the trails & waterways I should be on, and try to follow the guidelines in these areas. I'm not out there late at night, and I try to respect property boundries & be courteous to others. If I chose to do this on a quad or a ski boat, thats my choice to make.
It's too bad that someone scarred up Mr Liere's land with an ATV. But isn't it possible this was just one person or group, not everyone who rides ATVs? If someone runs a red light in front of you, do you think that everyone who drives a car is blind or stupid? Many of us are out there enjoying the outdoors, getting some exercise & having a good time. I don't get nearly the enjoyment or cover nearly as much territory on foot as I can on my ATV. I can cover maybe 3 or 4 miles in an afternoon on foot. Or 15 - 50 miles on my ATV in a few hours. A few animals might be a bit scared at first, but their not getting hurt & many of them will hang out to watch me as I drive by watching them. Recently I've seen moose and an entire herd of deer. They stood around & watched me as I watched them. And then they left & I continued on my way. No harm done.
ATV riders do a lot of good too. Search & Rescue teams use ATVs & snowmobiles. ATV riding clubs volunteer to build & renovate trails & park amenities. ATVs make excellent plows, grass mowers & farming tools.
Sorry for your loss, Mr Liere. Mother Nature will heal. Can you learn to share with others? And when those kids are tearing up your land, tell them you don't appreciate it. Because it's not all of us that did it. Consider putting up a fence to mark your land. And feel free to enforce your rights to protect that land. Responsible riders and parents will respect your boundries.
In response to the article "Off-Road Rage" by Mr Alan Liere:
I wonder if people like Mr Liere understand the concept of sharing. When we were kids, our parents taught us to share with the other kids. Now that we're adults, it's not so much toys as sharing the land, the roads, and the waterways with other people who have every right to use these amenities as the rest of us.
At 40 yrs old, my wife & I enjoy boating, waterskiing, & riding ATVs, & motorcycles. My equipment is within spec, we carry all our garbage out, stay on the trails & waterways I should be on, and try to follow the guidelines in these areas. I'm not out there late at night, and I try to respect property boundries & be courteous to others. If I chose to do this on a quad or a ski boat, thats my choice to make.
It's too bad that someone scarred up Mr Liere's land with an ATV. But isn't it possible this was just one person or group, not everyone who rides ATVs? If someone runs a red light in front of you, do you think that everyone who drives a car is blind or stupid? Many of us are out there enjoying the outdoors, getting some exercise & having a good time. I don't get nearly the enjoyment or cover nearly as much territory on foot as I can on my ATV. I can cover maybe 3 or 4 miles in an afternoon on foot. Or 15 - 50 miles on my ATV in a few hours. A few animals might be a bit scared at first, but their not getting hurt & many of them will hang out to watch me as I drive by watching them. Recently I've seen moose and an entire herd of deer. They stood around & watched me as I watched them. And then they left & I continued on my way. No harm done.
ATV riders do a lot of good too. Search & Rescue teams use ATVs & snowmobiles. ATV riding clubs volunteer to build & renovate trails & park amenities. ATVs make excellent plows, grass mowers & farming tools.
Sorry for your loss, Mr Liere. Mother Nature will heal. Can you learn to share with others? And when those kids are tearing up your land, tell them you don't appreciate it. Because it's not all of us that did it. Consider putting up a fence to mark your land. And feel free to enforce your rights to protect that land. Responsible riders and parents will respect your boundries.
#1168
I agree ...well said Bill....BUT!!.....Its time to pull the gloves off with these stinkin green freeks and letum have it....Im so sick and tired of this crap they spew about tearing up the enviroment.....Other than some trails that they can see when they walk on them there is no harm to the woods...
Look at the big picture of building roads and homes and malls ect....it coming weather we like it or not ....and to not use our public land because you dont want to see a dirt trail is unbelievable......tell Liere to hike further into the woods and get off the trail ...heck almost every place has logging roads already any way...so take a pill...
If it sounds like Im fired up its cuz I am...Ive been to many colville meeting and watched as the users hammered out equal access plan only to see them take it to the court system and see a lib judge make a ruling setting the stage for snowmobilers to loose access to more of Priest lake ID because of 3 carabou that probobly arnt even there...are I'll tell y what...if I see one I'll chase it back to canada where they belong...there not native to WA ID anyway there implants!
Sleds are 20ft above the forrest floor and leave no trace of being there come summer....all the huggers are trying to do is close it all down at all costs....
Ive been to enough meetings ...your right ...its time to join a club thats going to get in there face and start taking our public land back...not just try and defend what we happen to have.....The "Blue Ribbon Coalition" is a big time player in this type of offence and defence...thats where we need to send some bucks...and they dont ask for much to join for what they do...
But I think there is a very good ATV club in Idaho that helps the state catalog and map all there land....I cant think of the name but they seem to be a pretty active club outta Coeur D Alane....
Ragged
Look at the big picture of building roads and homes and malls ect....it coming weather we like it or not ....and to not use our public land because you dont want to see a dirt trail is unbelievable......tell Liere to hike further into the woods and get off the trail ...heck almost every place has logging roads already any way...so take a pill...
If it sounds like Im fired up its cuz I am...Ive been to many colville meeting and watched as the users hammered out equal access plan only to see them take it to the court system and see a lib judge make a ruling setting the stage for snowmobilers to loose access to more of Priest lake ID because of 3 carabou that probobly arnt even there...are I'll tell y what...if I see one I'll chase it back to canada where they belong...there not native to WA ID anyway there implants!
Sleds are 20ft above the forrest floor and leave no trace of being there come summer....all the huggers are trying to do is close it all down at all costs....
Ive been to enough meetings ...your right ...its time to join a club thats going to get in there face and start taking our public land back...not just try and defend what we happen to have.....The "Blue Ribbon Coalition" is a big time player in this type of offence and defence...thats where we need to send some bucks...and they dont ask for much to join for what they do...
But I think there is a very good ATV club in Idaho that helps the state catalog and map all there land....I cant think of the name but they seem to be a pretty active club outta Coeur D Alane....
Ragged
#1169
The responses given here show that we have some articulate, thinking men among us, (and one mad guy heehee).
Every trail that exists was once a "new trail". If trails ruin the forest, I guess the trail system on Canfield which has been there over 50 years must have killed that mountain by now eh? Is Canfield ruined? Have all the forest creatures fled for their very lives? Wanna see some pictures of a bull elk I took while riding on trail A up there?
I gotta say, I am right in step with Ragged on this one. We need to stress the fact that we are tax paying VOTING politically active citizens who use the forest. I am going to join the North Idaho ATV association, and I am going to join the Blue Ribbon Coalition. I am also going to recommend to every dirt biker, snowmobiler, and atv'r that I know to do the same. This is a war gentlemen and we need to fight. You may only ride on approved areas now, but what will you do when there are no approved areas? Will you sell your atv's? I say let's get together on this one and join these groups. Let's fight these imports with their gray ponytails and their hemp dresses,,,let's hunt them down and kill them!! Oh,,,,crap,,,,nevermind, we'd get in trouble for doing that[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]. It was just a thought.
I believe there are more people in the forest on motorized vehicles than there are hiking and biking. They just happen to be louder. Trails ruin nothing. Trails and motorized vehicles do not "scare off" the local wildlife. If that were true would you constantly see dead deer along the roads? Why do you think you see so many animal tracks on the logging roads and trails? It's because those poor scared creatures use the trails too.
Every trail that exists was once a "new trail". If trails ruin the forest, I guess the trail system on Canfield which has been there over 50 years must have killed that mountain by now eh? Is Canfield ruined? Have all the forest creatures fled for their very lives? Wanna see some pictures of a bull elk I took while riding on trail A up there?
I gotta say, I am right in step with Ragged on this one. We need to stress the fact that we are tax paying VOTING politically active citizens who use the forest. I am going to join the North Idaho ATV association, and I am going to join the Blue Ribbon Coalition. I am also going to recommend to every dirt biker, snowmobiler, and atv'r that I know to do the same. This is a war gentlemen and we need to fight. You may only ride on approved areas now, but what will you do when there are no approved areas? Will you sell your atv's? I say let's get together on this one and join these groups. Let's fight these imports with their gray ponytails and their hemp dresses,,,let's hunt them down and kill them!! Oh,,,,crap,,,,nevermind, we'd get in trouble for doing that[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]. It was just a thought.
I believe there are more people in the forest on motorized vehicles than there are hiking and biking. They just happen to be louder. Trails ruin nothing. Trails and motorized vehicles do not "scare off" the local wildlife. If that were true would you constantly see dead deer along the roads? Why do you think you see so many animal tracks on the logging roads and trails? It's because those poor scared creatures use the trails too.
#1170
You can really tell the animals use the trails alot if you go out in the deep snow............all you have to do is follow the tracks from the deer,elk, and moose and your right on the trail.
And the grass grows great in the loose dirt the quads kick up.....all you have to do is watch a section of trail that has been blocked by a huge fallen tree or a slide....people find a new way around it and the old section blends right back into the forest in just a year or two.
If someone want to hike and not be bothered by Mt bikes, dirt bikes, or atvs then they should go hike in the wilderness areas set aside for them.
I think the biggest problem facing the people (us) who want to roam the mountains on our toys is that we are split.
We need to unite the jeepers, sledders, dirt bikes, and ATV's all in one combined group.....strength in numbers.
But right now the greenies are doing everything they can to divide and conquer our ORV groups by pitting us against each other.
And the grass grows great in the loose dirt the quads kick up.....all you have to do is watch a section of trail that has been blocked by a huge fallen tree or a slide....people find a new way around it and the old section blends right back into the forest in just a year or two.
If someone want to hike and not be bothered by Mt bikes, dirt bikes, or atvs then they should go hike in the wilderness areas set aside for them.
I think the biggest problem facing the people (us) who want to roam the mountains on our toys is that we are split.
We need to unite the jeepers, sledders, dirt bikes, and ATV's all in one combined group.....strength in numbers.
But right now the greenies are doing everything they can to divide and conquer our ORV groups by pitting us against each other.


