yea but I can probably knock just as much weight off the yfz as you can the raptor if not more

 

I can take the battery, starter, and everything that goes with that off my yfz can you do that with your raptor? That must be a good 5 lbs. right there

 

Thats why I say WITH MONEY, do you even pay attention to what I say? You can't get much lighter equipment for the YFZ cause it's already all lightened or made of aluminum. The Rappy has much more steel etc that can be changed to alum and such, I also have a battery I can rid of...Just need to MONEY to figure out how to kick start it (as if I'd wanna kick start that freakin thing) buuuutttt If I can't theres enough other parts to make up for it. I'm done arguing about this, it just goes nowhere...say what you need to say, I wont answer back. Peace.

 

Its true that it takes a lot of money to make the raptor into an effective mx machine, and that it lags impossibly far behind the 450 class quads. That said, with a arms, axle and shocks a raptor will handle very well everywhere else but an mx track. The handling advantage of a yfz is more obvious on an mx track. Only in tight woods sections would the yfz have a significant advantage over a raptor with modified suspension. While this doesnt cut it for pro or even amatuer ama mx racers, its great for the majority of weekend speed demons out there.

Power to weight ratio is a different thing as well. Do you really ever expect a raptor 660 to come close to making the same hp per cc as a dohc yfz? Look at a small block v8 and a dohc import I4. when you look at power to displacement ratios, the i4 has a clear advantage. The ability to rev much higher to make hp dooms the v8 from the start. Thats not to say that a small block cant be made to make massive hp greater than that of the I4. In fact, its possible for the hp potential of the v8 to exceed the weight and design handicap it had from production. I believe this is a reasonable reflection on the situation of the yfz vs the raptor. If you want to see how much the design can alter the engine, just take a look at the honda 450 and the yfz or the 400ex vs the kawisukicats. dohc makes a big difference.

Its easy to get good hp gains from a yfz. Its even easier to do so with a raptor. But because of weight, this is necessary for the raptor to stay in the game. A raptor can gain as much as 14hp when piped, filtered and jetted. I believe the yfz max for that situation is around 7 or 8hp. A raptor can easily be fitted with a similar comp piston and higher revving cam as well to make up for weight and factory detuning. Same thing for the yfz cam mod. Once you get this far, you can add up to 100cc to the raptor engine. A realistic look at the yfz adds approximately 50. The percentages lean in favor of the raptor. Properly tuned a raptor has the potential to beat any yfz. The problem is that poor tuning and bad riders are prominent. Thats not to say a yfz couldnt waste all but the very extreme built raptors, but physics says the raptor should theoretically have the edge when the engines are pushed to their limits.

 

Why is everyone so fricken raptor biased? Ew Ew it gains 20hp with a pipe filter and stage one cam. If thats true then that setup would be making more than the average 686. Besides, ive yet to see any rappy person dyno their bike on anything but a Dyno Jet , which ALWAYS over rates because of the software and is not repeatable on different dynos. My money is on the YFZ. Put a very high rev cam in it, up the compression, run it on alcy, have a pro port the head for absolute maximum flow, ballance the rotating assembly, put a bigger carb, and if thats not enough give her a little go juice, aka NO2. Yes you can do the same thing to a rappy but IF it stays together moving that big ol slug of a piston that fast it wont be all that much more power and it will still weigh more.

 

I know a yfz can beat me as I sit now. I know that no matter what I do to my bike their will always be a yfz or another raptor faster than I am. No big deal, I can handle it.

Multiple dynos can confirm 10hp pipe increases all day long. I stated 14 because that is the highest peak hp increase claimed by a manufacturer. I quoted 8 on a yfz because it is the highest I have seen advertised. As for 20 total, that would be 55hp. That is possible with a stage 2 type cam and very high comp piston on std. bore, but more easily achieved in a 686. 55hp from a pipe and cam I agree is really pushing it.

I didnt include the idea of alky or n2o to my theories, but now that I think of it, its a good point. A 440+ex on alky can make quick work of many a big bore raptors. If you slapped a 39 or larger fcr on a 500cc or so yfz, i dont see why it shouldnt run with a 770 raptor. Like you said, when the dp goes up, the piston gets bigger and you increase your rotating mass, cutting rpms. Not many people I have seen have put the raptor on alcohol, so I cannot say what the change would do for the 770. If it was similar to that on the smaller bikes, then I would say the yfz would still be in trouble. If less, the the yfz could very possibly come out on top.

This is all theoretical anyway, because few of us have the time or money to take our machines beyond 6k in mods. And since a good portion of this is spent on shocks, tires, and suspension, that leaves only about 1/2 that for the engine. So 3k into either would give you a great machine, and I'm confident that most of us would be happy at this point.

 

Thats why I converted to two stroke. Buy some pipes and carbs, then the rest is grinding [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] Mines gonna be a horrible handling pig with a bad **** motor though. I really dunno about the rappy vs R vs yfz. I think its going to come down to which motor has the strongest internals. What holds the average 400ex owner back is the guts cant take it for long. Im not really sure whats holding the raptor back. I guess its that big slug of a piston. Havent heard much on the Z400s shortcomings. Well just have to wait and see what these new little rockets can take before they pop.

 

Actually, LRD advertises 24hp peak gain for the Raptor and 8hp for the YFZ. DMC is similar at 9.9hp for the YFZ and around 20hp for the Raptor. It's still a numbers gain. RPM is not horsepower. The YFZ will always be able to rev higher, and will probably always produce more hp/cc, but pump up both mils to the maximum possible and the 660 will produce more horsepower every time - PERIOD. It's physics.

 

24hp peak gain for a raptor pipe??? That would give you around 54hp...Sounds kind of fishy to me. I could see 24hp gain over some certain rpm, but not on top.

 

Unrealistic gains are ubtained by additional overrev a pipe gives the Raptor....overrev is nice but peak HP is a better comparism. One can re-arrange the numbers all he / she wants, but ultimately the Raptor has the upper hand in ultimate potential power. With the Raptor's torque curve, the additional weight is not a large variable for drag racing. Who cares about MX, 95% of purchasers never see a MX track and do not want too rebuild yearly.