<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: pyrochad

Here is my two cents. If you want power and you like to mod out buy a banshee...</end quote></div>


Not if your doing any track riding. Those things do not have the suspension for that. They will beat (and scare) you to death on a track.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Koopa

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: recon99



The raptor 350 is sort of a joke, yamaha doesn't have any excuse to be using the old outdated design of the warrior anymore....



</end quote></div>



I kinda disagree with ya there man. It is a rock solid and proven engine. Yamaha updated the suspension with the raptor didnt they? It's also Yamaha's best trail quad(sport side) with exception to the hybrid wolvy. I know some say 700 but dang them things are hot. I like the air cooled machines.



Look at Honda. The 400EX is still a super popular bike and they hardly touched the suspension on the thing much less the engine.



I guess what I'm saying is that alot of people look for what they know to be good machines when purchasing a bike say, for there kid. I think thats what Yamaha aims for with the Raptor 350.



In Bama's case if your doing track riding or may want more out of your bike one day go for the 450 with no doubt over the 350. You didn't say anything about being open to other machines. If you are open it all depends on where/how you ride.</end quote></div>



The suspension on the Raptor 350 is barely improved over the warrior, if at all. Same engine, same frame, same swingarm, same everything. The only improvement that was really made was the ergonomics, which still kinda blow compared to anything else.
it keeps all of the warrior's shortcomings. Electrical problems, poor air filter design, very heavy and sluggish feeling, no top end power, etc. I owned a warrior for a long time and dumped a bunch of money into it, and regret that. All the newer machines are just as reliable, are more comforable to ride, are faster, and just have a lighter, more nimble feeling to them. Ride a warrior or raptor 350 for a day, then ride a z400. All of the sudden that 350 feels like ****. If yamaha wants to market the raptor 350 against the 400's like they do, then they should design a quad that can actually hang with the competition. That would be a 4 valve head, liquid cooled (or at least oil cooled) 400 with a completely redesigned frame and suspension.

Now, i'm not saying the old 350's are a bad quad or anything, for the longest time the warrior was the best 4 stroke quad on the market. It's just that the rest of the market has moved on to bigger and better things, and yamaha just doesn't want to let go of the yfm350.

I'm not sure what you mean about raptor 700's running hot either, it runs MUCH cooler than any air cooled quad I ever owned. I'd say the 700 is definitely better than the 350's on the trails simply because the suspension is highly adjustable and can handle it, and it does run much more cooler and consistently. When the 350's get hot (and they get very hot when you're riding slow) the start to get erratic idles, clutch drag, and the transmission won't shift into neutral or out of reverse.

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Koopa

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: pyrochad



Here is my two cents. If you want power and you like to mod out buy a banshee...</end quote></div>





Not if your doing any track riding. Those things do not have the suspension for that. They will beat (and scare) you to death on a track.</end quote></div>

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Koopa

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: pyrochad



Here is my two cents. If you want power and you like to mod out buy a banshee...</end quote></div>





Not if your doing any track riding. Those things do not have the suspension for that. They will beat (and scare) you to death on a track.</end quote></div>

First of all I said if you want to mod it out and that meant upgrading the suspension, they wont scare you if you know how to ride it.

 

Wow! I didn't think that I would have gotten that many responses out of this thread; thanks guys!

Ok, so, first...bigned, I do love Honda cars and all, but I haven't heard too many awesome things about them as compared to Yamaha. And it's different on the other hand; I don't much care for anything else Yamaha, like drums or guitars or anything else like that. I mean, when I went to the dealership, I sat on a 300ex, or something to that effect, and I didn't care much for the height or the look of it. I have a Raptor now and I really love how they are. I think that I am going to stick there. But all the same, thanks man. I will keep that in mind.

Raptor450 is absolutely right. I DO want something that I will not outgrow for some time. A very, very, very long time. =]

Recon99, man, the 700 is so badass! I definately want one of those. But I am very bad at being outdone by others and also a very big risk-taker on a quad. When I see someone do a double, I want to go out there and try, whether I am ready or not. Thats how I landed my first double. I'm just thinking that the 700 would be the death of me! It's HUGE! And I am not sure how powerful they are, as I have only ridden my Rappy Jr. And aren't the Outlaws made by Polaris? They make good skimmers and (from what I have heard) great utilities, but I heard that they started with the design for the Polaris from a Chinese scooter! The Raptor was made from the ground-up for exactly what it is for: racing. Do you really think that I can find a well-taken care of Raptor 700 SE that is only a few years old for around $5K?

Pyrochad, who makes the LTR? Anybody heard any problems with the LTR?

The Banshee is DEFINITELY a bad quad! Trust me, I have raced against one. But I do want a new quad that is not a 2-stroke. I don't want this to turn into a 2-stroke/4-stroke debate. I know that 2-strokes push a lot more power but are not as reliable as a 4-stroke. And, as this thread is titled my choices as of now are a Raptor 350 and a YFZ 450. I am open to suggestions for other ones but I lean a lot close towards Yamaha since they took my quad-ginity. (Haha, shouldn't have said that).

The other day I was out at the track and they have a few miles of trails back there as well as a 1.75 mile long track. I always tear up the track but there were two people there this time. One on a KTM trail bike and the other on a dirt bike. The guy on the KTM took me out on the trail and, well, of course, the Raptor ate that up! I was really surprised at what that baby can handle! All kinds of weird angles and mud and rivers. But thats about as far as I go with trails. I may never do that again, haha. It was tough muscleing that thing around turns and up steep hills. The track is all I need. Bigger turns and higher jumps, baby!

I will consider a 700 SE but I don't know if that is too much for me. That thing can get out of control with that power and then I will be up the creek.

But thank you so much guys. If this new reply has helped alleviated any unclear perceptions, then just try to help me out.

I NEED A NEW TOY!

 

I'm not sure why you're scared of a raptor 700 when a yfz450 is just as fast. And yes, i'm sure you could easily get a good one for around $5,000. I looked at one that had aftermarket tires, wheels, exhaust, skid plates, handlebars, bumper, etc and it looked like it was in great shape for $5,100. I still opted for a brand new one though, just so I knew for sure that I wasn't buying a neglected machine, and because the 2008's have better shocks.

If you do think that a raptor 700 is going to be too powerful with your lack of self control (I also have that problem, but so far i'm doing good with mine, only had it 2 weeks though) a 400 class machine would probably be a safer bet. Not so crazy fast as the 450's and 700, but still a good leap over a 250.


What you said about the polaris sport quads is definitely not true.

The older utility based sport quads polaris made (scrambler and trailblazer) were sort of mild and were just their ute models with different plastics for the most part. But the new ones, and i'm primarily talking the 2 outlaw models with the 525 KTM engines, are very nice machines. They can run with the 450's and the raptors, and so far nobody really has any major complaints about them. The KTM 525 powerplant is an amazing engine too. Definitely nothing scooter-based about anything on these things, so i'm not sure where you heard that.

BUT I still say that if you want something that you won't outgrow for a long long time, the raptor 700 is the way to go. The possibilities with these things are almost limitless. I'm really looking forward to getting a programmable EFI controller for mine too, so as I modify the intake, exhaust, etc. I can "rejet" (not really rejetting anymore) through my computer without having to take anything at all apart on the quad. You just download the fuel map off the internet, and if you need to tweak it at all it's a piece of cake.


If you're really serious about your track riding, that's what the 450's are designed for. The downside of this though is that performance is the #1 design motivation, so things like slow-speed ridability, ground clearance, ease of maintenance, and ride comfort all come as a second priority. Just something to keep in mind. You don't see a lot of raptors on the tracks because by nature they're a little taller and have a higher center of gravity compared to the 450's, and they're heavier as well. A 700 would still do better than your 250 on the track.

 

My bad, my bad. It was the Polaris Phoenix. That thing started off as a Chinese Scooter. *Info taken from www.yamaha-motor.com. Go to the part about the 250 SE and click the Video tab and watch the first video.

But, Recon99, I do appreciate all the help. I don't pretend to know much about what an EFI controller is or what a fuel map is, so if you could give me a crash-course in it, I would really enjoy it.

Haha, about the self-control thing, I can't help it. I love riding and I love the adrenaline rush you get from getting launched into the air and sliding around a burm. I just don't want to get over my head (especially financially) with a 700 SE. What you said about the 450, about riding comfort and low-speed reliability, it doesn't sound too appealing. I do take slow rides every now and then. Speed is great but when you are sore from riding so hard, it's good to just cruise.

Think I could get a good turn-around with my Rappy Jr for a newer 700 SE?

 

Does anybody know of a good website that you can advertise, sell, buy, and look at ATVs close to your area?

 

Oh, and Recon99...first off, you have gotten me thinking about getting a 700 now. I will just forward my medical bills to you. =]

Kidding, mate.

But with all the differences between the 700 and any other Yamaha build, wouldn't there be more maintenance? Honestly, it used a fan and is liquid-cooled, the SOHC, I'm thinking will be better than a DOHC for maintenance but how about power-wise? The 700 still seems dangerous for a person like me and the extras seem intimidating on the wallet. I can get over all that.

So, now it comes down to the YFZ 450 or the Raptor 700 SE.

It's going to be awhile though. I need to pay off the one I have now and then I can trade it in, unless I can do so without going upside down.

 

Power wise, the 700r is a fast machine stock, about the same as the raptor 660's, and pretty close to the 450's as well. From the factory it's kinda choked up a lot with the stock exhaust and intake, so just an exhaust, intake, and EFI controller can really give you a kick in the pants. The dual exhausts are especially sweet, that's what I want for mine.

As far as reliability and maintenance, there really isn't much different in this department vs most other performance sport quads in the past. Mostly just checking your valve clearances and adjusting if necessary (it still uses tappets to adjust as opposed to shims on the yfz450, shimming is a pain) and just changing your oil and filter and your other basic things you need to do on any quad. The liquid cooling requires hardly any maintenance, yamaha just recommends to change the coolant every 2 years. The raptor was designed as an all around machine for the average person (maybe a little speed happier than the average person, but you know what I mean) so they kept it in the design to keep them easy to maintain, nothign real fancy in that department.

As far as a crash course on the EFI controller, i'll try to keep this as basic as I can. The raptor's fuel injection system isn't like one you find on your car that has an oxygen sensor to adjust for running lean and stuff like that. What the raptor's efi system takes into consideration is the air temperature, throttle position, and RPM. When you add any kind of modifications you obviously get more airflow, and without adding fuel to your mixture you'll be running lean and possibly damage your engine. Instead of rejetting like you would with a carburetor, you can install an EFI controller on the raptor to adjust your air/fuel ratio. There are several different kinds on the market, some that just use a few screws to adjust your fuel ratio at different points throughout the rpm curve. The higher end ones like the Dynojet Power Commander III are actually programmable units based on a microprocessor, and can be plugged into your laptop or even desktop computer. Then instead of playing around with different settings on the screws, or changing out jets like on a carburetor, all you do is download a fuel map for the modifications that you currently have, plug the unit into your computer with a USB cable, and the software that is included will load this fuel map onto the unit. (a fuel map is sort of a chart that tells the EFI unit how much fuel to put into the engine based on the current conditions) Now you're ready to ride. That's a lot of words to describe it, but it's a simple process, much more simple than trial-and-error taking your carb apart several times and all that.

As far as a local classifieds-type thing online, check out www.craigslist.com you should be able to find a city close to you with some decent listings in there.

Hope all that helps, and if you have any other questions definitely don't hesitate to ask. I'm new to the raptor 700's myself, but i'm learning quick.