Raptor Transmission Testemonials!
#41
06-13-2001, 12:17 AM
Raptech,
As i stated in my earlier post, I did my own trans work. When apart all the gears in the trans areor normal strength except for the dogs on 4th gear that attach to second gear. Why do they do this? You said the do it to reduce weight well i think this wasnt the case here. I also was like you having lots of experience with ATV's and bikes, and thought it was just how everyone else rode there bikes. Well it happened to me too. Wait til it happens to you and you will be singing a different tune. If you havent noticed Raptors all make good racers and kick butt til there trannies goto heck. Plenty of articles on that in the mags and on the net so dont tell us there is no prob. All i can say is your time will come and youll be like the rest of us.
As i stated in my earlier post, I did my own trans work. When apart all the gears in the trans areor normal strength except for the dogs on 4th gear that attach to second gear. Why do they do this? You said the do it to reduce weight well i think this wasnt the case here. I also was like you having lots of experience with ATV's and bikes, and thought it was just how everyone else rode there bikes. Well it happened to me too. Wait til it happens to you and you will be singing a different tune. If you havent noticed Raptors all make good racers and kick butt til there trannies goto heck. Plenty of articles on that in the mags and on the net so dont tell us there is no prob. All i can say is your time will come and youll be like the rest of us.
#42
06-13-2001, 04:35 AM
Hey, Raptech. I was just on the yam website checking out the raptor 80, and went to the '02 660 info page. It states " YZ-spec ratchet shifter ensures smooth, ressistance-free shifting under power". Now remember from an earlier post I made I always use the clutch. But to me, this says the tranny is built to take the punnishment of shifting under power. Applying the clutch would remove the power, wouldnt it? how about the rest of you guys and gals wouldnt shifting under power mean nail the the throttle and shift away?
Also the front page of the info section states things like, gorging up competition, eat them for breakfast, the competition will be lucky just to keep it in their sights, ect. To me this is advertised as a race quad and yamaha wants you to race everything on wheels. I intend on riding hard, and I hope this new tranny wants to ride hard too!!!
Also the front page of the info section states things like, gorging up competition, eat them for breakfast, the competition will be lucky just to keep it in their sights, ect. To me this is advertised as a race quad and yamaha wants you to race everything on wheels. I intend on riding hard, and I hope this new tranny wants to ride hard too!!!
#43
06-13-2001, 10:00 AM
Raptec,
I hadn't even thought of the drag O-rings impose, But do the none O-ring chains really hold up in sand and mud. I know cleaning it after every ride will help this but we usually hit some mud right here at the beginning of our ride then ride all day 85-100 miles !! Is this gonna be a concern without the O-rings there to keep it out?? Dont get me wrong we dont put the machine in mud up over the bars, its just that the trail we have to take has a few water holes that get mucky.
I under understand that this isn't a full blown racer but I ride with two other Raptors and we all are very competitive, so you know what that turns into. We don't show up at some track to race we just like to mess around on the trails and dirt roads but seems like one of us always ends up with a problem! Im not saying the Raptor isn't a good machine it just needs some work and hopping someone that counts is reading these posts. I realize weight is a factor, but come on PLASTIC skid plates, thiner axels then a 400ex and stuff like that, I would have still bought it if it was 20-30 lbs heavier and would have felt better buying a pipe as my first upgrade instead of skidplates.
I know I am starting to run on but only in hopes that this is where Yamaha is looking in this direction for information.
I hadn't even thought of the drag O-rings impose, But do the none O-ring chains really hold up in sand and mud. I know cleaning it after every ride will help this but we usually hit some mud right here at the beginning of our ride then ride all day 85-100 miles !! Is this gonna be a concern without the O-rings there to keep it out?? Dont get me wrong we dont put the machine in mud up over the bars, its just that the trail we have to take has a few water holes that get mucky.
I under understand that this isn't a full blown racer but I ride with two other Raptors and we all are very competitive, so you know what that turns into. We don't show up at some track to race we just like to mess around on the trails and dirt roads but seems like one of us always ends up with a problem! Im not saying the Raptor isn't a good machine it just needs some work and hopping someone that counts is reading these posts. I realize weight is a factor, but come on PLASTIC skid plates, thiner axels then a 400ex and stuff like that, I would have still bought it if it was 20-30 lbs heavier and would have felt better buying a pipe as my first upgrade instead of skidplates.
I know I am starting to run on but only in hopes that this is where Yamaha is looking in this direction for information.
#44
06-14-2001, 12:29 AM
Hey mtecate 4g, first, what does your call sign stand for? You're not medicated while riding are you? (just kidding).
I'm impressed with you doing your own work. I don't recommend anyone reading this doing their own engine/tranny work because it takes a lot of knowledge/experience to do it right. If you're not 100% sure, you can screw up more than fixing it and dealers hate basket cases.
Anyway, with that said, you're right mtecate. The gear dogs on 2nd gear is right on the shoulder of the shift fork groove on 4th gear?, something like that. The only reason I can think of is that, this engine/tranny was based off of XTZ660 off road dirt bike in Germany. It probably had 6 speeds (gear on the other side of 2nd gear instead of engagement dogs. With the public demand to Yamaha that Raptor must have revese gear, they probably re-designed the tranny to 5 speed w/reverse and ended up that way (pure speculation). Knowing this, I'm careful banging into 2nd but most of the time during racing, we start out in 2nd and use 3rd or 4th most of the time. (Maybe that's why I haven't had a problem yet with 2nd but I'm watching).
The best thing to do is if there is a trendy weak spot with the tranny, we need to let our dealers know about it. If the dealers see same problem fewe times, they'll let Yamaha know about it because they are the eyes in the market for manufactures and what they sell is their bread and butter so they want to sell good products.
Once Yamaha can see a pattern, they'll fix it (I have confidence in all manufactures because they're in this to make the best and sell products).
I noticed that Yamaha changed the gear ratio in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear on the 2002 model. I was told that this was to reduce gear ratio not beef up the tranny. But, just by reducing the ratio, the force fed through those gears are reduce, in turn, they should be stronger (we'll see). I think that lower ratio on those trail gears will be a good thing for most riders.
In conclusion, the best thing we can do now is to try shifting positively and avoid grinding, slamming and banging gears. If you miss a shift, bring the Rs down and grab the other gear without abrupt bang. Use the clutch as much as possible because it's the shock absorber for the tranny. This is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth and don't be upset with me as I'm just trying to help.
I'm impressed with you doing your own work. I don't recommend anyone reading this doing their own engine/tranny work because it takes a lot of knowledge/experience to do it right. If you're not 100% sure, you can screw up more than fixing it and dealers hate basket cases.
Anyway, with that said, you're right mtecate. The gear dogs on 2nd gear is right on the shoulder of the shift fork groove on 4th gear?, something like that. The only reason I can think of is that, this engine/tranny was based off of XTZ660 off road dirt bike in Germany. It probably had 6 speeds (gear on the other side of 2nd gear instead of engagement dogs. With the public demand to Yamaha that Raptor must have revese gear, they probably re-designed the tranny to 5 speed w/reverse and ended up that way (pure speculation). Knowing this, I'm careful banging into 2nd but most of the time during racing, we start out in 2nd and use 3rd or 4th most of the time. (Maybe that's why I haven't had a problem yet with 2nd but I'm watching).
The best thing to do is if there is a trendy weak spot with the tranny, we need to let our dealers know about it. If the dealers see same problem fewe times, they'll let Yamaha know about it because they are the eyes in the market for manufactures and what they sell is their bread and butter so they want to sell good products.
Once Yamaha can see a pattern, they'll fix it (I have confidence in all manufactures because they're in this to make the best and sell products).
I noticed that Yamaha changed the gear ratio in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gear on the 2002 model. I was told that this was to reduce gear ratio not beef up the tranny. But, just by reducing the ratio, the force fed through those gears are reduce, in turn, they should be stronger (we'll see). I think that lower ratio on those trail gears will be a good thing for most riders.
In conclusion, the best thing we can do now is to try shifting positively and avoid grinding, slamming and banging gears. If you miss a shift, bring the Rs down and grab the other gear without abrupt bang. Use the clutch as much as possible because it's the shock absorber for the tranny. This is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth and don't be upset with me as I'm just trying to help.
#45
06-14-2001, 12:46 AM
#46
06-14-2001, 12:48 AM
I guess marketing will say just about anything to get your interest but if you read the warranty statement, it doesn't cover the product under racing unless it a YZ and you only have 30 days to break it or you get to keep both halves.
Raptor is not a YZ level race product. It requires a lot of mods before race ready. If you ride it like a race machine, things will happen. Although, it should hold up to aggressive riding because it is an aggressive machine. Don't ride over your head because you may break before the machine.
Riding hard and shifting with the throttle tapped is OK as long as you speed shift using the clutch to unload the gear you're in and allowing it to shift into next gear. Shifting under power without unloading the gear can cause you to hit between gears and when you slam into the next gear while the gears are spinning like a turbo, stuff will fly apart. Just be careful and enjoy the ride. See my comment to Mtecate 4g.
Raptor is not a YZ level race product. It requires a lot of mods before race ready. If you ride it like a race machine, things will happen. Although, it should hold up to aggressive riding because it is an aggressive machine. Don't ride over your head because you may break before the machine.
Riding hard and shifting with the throttle tapped is OK as long as you speed shift using the clutch to unload the gear you're in and allowing it to shift into next gear. Shifting under power without unloading the gear can cause you to hit between gears and when you slam into the next gear while the gears are spinning like a turbo, stuff will fly apart. Just be careful and enjoy the ride. See my comment to Mtecate 4g.
#47
06-14-2001, 01:15 AM
Hey 2SD, sounds like you guys have a lot of fun riding. It's just like me and my buddies. We ride fast but not crazy (been there broke that).
On the chain issue, good quality 520 none o-ring will do fine. Like anything, there's advantages and disadvantages. The o-ring chain is designed to be somewhat maintenance free but if the lube gets out or you get dirt in passed the o-ring, it works against you. The best maintenance on the o-ring chain is to lube it with light oil to prevent rust which can wear the o-rings and peel them out. The o-ring chain usually wears in certain spots causing uneven wear and becomes tight-loose-tight as you rotate the wheels.
The none o-ring chain is somewhat self cleaning pushing out the debris entering the rollers. When maintaining, clean thoroughly and lube with real chain lube - the sticky kind. The advantage, minimum friction - more power to the ground. You can feel this when just free spinning the wheel with you hand.
On the plastic swing arm skid, that's a joke. Before I even ridden mine, I put the aluminum skids. I guess that's a cost issue to bring the Raptor in at 6499.00 MSRP.
On the rear axle issue, I heard that Yamaha strength it for the `02 model. I'm sure it's not to the race level but it'll probably take more pounding than `01. It probably won't withstand the trees that move out into the trails and the rocks that move up.
Have fun riding.
On the chain issue, good quality 520 none o-ring will do fine. Like anything, there's advantages and disadvantages. The o-ring chain is designed to be somewhat maintenance free but if the lube gets out or you get dirt in passed the o-ring, it works against you. The best maintenance on the o-ring chain is to lube it with light oil to prevent rust which can wear the o-rings and peel them out. The o-ring chain usually wears in certain spots causing uneven wear and becomes tight-loose-tight as you rotate the wheels.
The none o-ring chain is somewhat self cleaning pushing out the debris entering the rollers. When maintaining, clean thoroughly and lube with real chain lube - the sticky kind. The advantage, minimum friction - more power to the ground. You can feel this when just free spinning the wheel with you hand.
On the plastic swing arm skid, that's a joke. Before I even ridden mine, I put the aluminum skids. I guess that's a cost issue to bring the Raptor in at 6499.00 MSRP.
On the rear axle issue, I heard that Yamaha strength it for the `02 model. I'm sure it's not to the race level but it'll probably take more pounding than `01. It probably won't withstand the trees that move out into the trails and the rocks that move up.
Have fun riding.
#48
06-14-2001, 01:28 AM
I was doing some serious examinations on my raptor today to try to see what to do to not ruin the trans. One thing that is real important is the proper clutch slack. Properly adjusted shifter. adn properly adjusted reverse **** cable. This could be some peoples problems. Their raptors start to age and they dont adjust the cables or shifter. After adjusting everything to a T it shifts like butter. I usually keep my clutch adjusted but usually only monthly check the other adjustments. I guess this time i will check them every ride just for good measure. On the new gear changes i was told they were still the same and the web site states nothing of this change. Maybe i am wrong. If my trans goes again i may order up they new gear set. The new gear ratio, if there is one, would be better for the tighter motocross tracks. Dont get me wrong raptech i am notsaying you dont know what your talking about just saying that there is a problem. Yes with preventitive things we could all probablyfigure out a way to make the trans last but we souldnt have to is what i am saying. And you are right no one shouild attempt a tranny job unless extremely experienced.
#49
06-14-2001, 02:06 AM
Jason, I understand that changing the 1st gear ratio meant changing the main tranny axle because first drive gear is part of the main axle. This means, to retro fit the `02 gears, you will need main axle and relative gears. If you have tranny failure, they'll only repair the failed parts which is available separately for 01 model.
If you want to upgrade to the 02 ratio, maybe its better to pay for the none damaged gears and get your update. Keep in mind, the dealers must tell Yamaha what the manufacturing defect was which caused the failure or the warranty may not cover. Just to upgrade is not a defect because all manufactures make updates to make a better machine for tomorrow.
Enjoy your ride and hope that its trouble free.
If you want to upgrade to the 02 ratio, maybe its better to pay for the none damaged gears and get your update. Keep in mind, the dealers must tell Yamaha what the manufacturing defect was which caused the failure or the warranty may not cover. Just to upgrade is not a defect because all manufactures make updates to make a better machine for tomorrow.
Enjoy your ride and hope that its trouble free.
