It's official, new gears and a new axle for the Raptor!
#1
06-15-2001, 10:51 AM
Yamaha USA page Click on the 660r link.
This is straight off of the website.
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New for 2002:
New transmission gear ratios for better overall performance.
New YZ-style piggyback rear shock improves suspension reaction time and function.
Newly designed rear axle.
--------------------------------------
So what do you think? Did Yamaha privately acknowledge that there is a problem with the gearing and weak axle and fix them both including using better tranny ratios? It's a shame that they didn't build it correctly to start with. When Honda had a problem with the Ranchers and some of them having some frame troubles, they didn't wait for them to break and cause accidents, they fixed them if they fell into the serial numbers of one that had the POTENTIAL to break. Can Yamaha use this opportunity to show that they care as much about their customers and also about the reliability of there machines?
If it was just an upgrade or improvement to the design, I wouldn't expect it, but when it's to fix a real problem, you'd think that they would care enough about their customers to fix it.
Has Yamaha ever had a similar situation and if so, have they ever actually had a "recall" in order to update products to a workable design?
Yes, if the tranny will hold together, I'd consider it workable, but how many people have HAD to buy an aftermarket axle because the stock on is junk?
Just thinking aloud here. Feel free to jump with your own thoughts.
This is straight off of the website.
---------------------------------------
New for 2002:
New transmission gear ratios for better overall performance.
New YZ-style piggyback rear shock improves suspension reaction time and function.
Newly designed rear axle.
--------------------------------------
So what do you think? Did Yamaha privately acknowledge that there is a problem with the gearing and weak axle and fix them both including using better tranny ratios? It's a shame that they didn't build it correctly to start with. When Honda had a problem with the Ranchers and some of them having some frame troubles, they didn't wait for them to break and cause accidents, they fixed them if they fell into the serial numbers of one that had the POTENTIAL to break. Can Yamaha use this opportunity to show that they care as much about their customers and also about the reliability of there machines?
If it was just an upgrade or improvement to the design, I wouldn't expect it, but when it's to fix a real problem, you'd think that they would care enough about their customers to fix it.
Has Yamaha ever had a similar situation and if so, have they ever actually had a "recall" in order to update products to a workable design?
Yes, if the tranny will hold together, I'd consider it workable, but how many people have HAD to buy an aftermarket axle because the stock on is junk?
Just thinking aloud here. Feel free to jump with your own thoughts.
#2
06-15-2001, 11:18 AM
Wow, I could swear I read the Raptor description on Wednesday after the release of the 2002 models and didn't see those upgrades. I saw something about new tires and that was it. Now they're definitely there.
I think Yamaha did the right thing by upgrading the gearbox and axle. They definitely did the wrong thing by denying the fact that these were problem areas for the past 9 months. After I bent my stock Raptor axle, Yamaha (and a couple of dealers) told me they had never heard of anyone bending axles and that I must have been abusing the machine (absolutely not the case). Well, I bought a new axle on my own nickel.
The gearbox issue just scares me. I think Yamaha should offer a discounted gearbox upgrade to 2001 Raptor owners.
I think Yamaha did the right thing by upgrading the gearbox and axle. They definitely did the wrong thing by denying the fact that these were problem areas for the past 9 months. After I bent my stock Raptor axle, Yamaha (and a couple of dealers) told me they had never heard of anyone bending axles and that I must have been abusing the machine (absolutely not the case). Well, I bought a new axle on my own nickel.
The gearbox issue just scares me. I think Yamaha should offer a discounted gearbox upgrade to 2001 Raptor owners.
#3
06-15-2001, 11:31 AM
What's up Bash?
Yamaha is still not going to admit they have a problem with the tranny! Why, you might ask? Well, the shop that fixed my tranny and installed the mods into my motor couldn't get Yamaha to call him back for an answer as to what they would pay for my tranny repair. He called 3 times to the B**** that everyone else has had to deal with and she just said "well I'll have to see, but we don't like having to take full responsibility for the Raptor tranny issues" (as if all of the problems are caused by the rider). She went as far as to question him about what he said was the cause of the tranny failure.
That right there tells me Yamaha is not standing behind the poor tranny design!
As I have recommended to many others in the past, make sure you use a good dealer and build a relationship with them, even if you have to drive 100 miles for repairs. The dealer who I used for the repair went over that little b****s head (Lisa?, not sure) and spoke to someone higher in rank. After they spoke and the mechanic explained what happened with the tranny and what needed to be repaired, the Yamaha guy said "don't worry about it, we'll take care of all the repair parts and labor costs".
That should show you how important it is to have a relationship with your dealer, it saved me about a $1000.- ($400.- parts and $600.- labor).
On the other issues, the axle, rear shock and gear ratios:
They should replace existing broken axles with the new design!
The rear shock isn't too big a deal, if you race or ride extremely aggressive, chances are you would have it revalved or replace it anyway. If not, it's a good stock shock!
The gear ratios aren't a huge deal to me "personally", but I know others don't care for it, so?
Sorry for ramblin, just my .02
Yamaha is still not going to admit they have a problem with the tranny! Why, you might ask? Well, the shop that fixed my tranny and installed the mods into my motor couldn't get Yamaha to call him back for an answer as to what they would pay for my tranny repair. He called 3 times to the B**** that everyone else has had to deal with and she just said "well I'll have to see, but we don't like having to take full responsibility for the Raptor tranny issues" (as if all of the problems are caused by the rider). She went as far as to question him about what he said was the cause of the tranny failure.
That right there tells me Yamaha is not standing behind the poor tranny design!
As I have recommended to many others in the past, make sure you use a good dealer and build a relationship with them, even if you have to drive 100 miles for repairs. The dealer who I used for the repair went over that little b****s head (Lisa?, not sure) and spoke to someone higher in rank. After they spoke and the mechanic explained what happened with the tranny and what needed to be repaired, the Yamaha guy said "don't worry about it, we'll take care of all the repair parts and labor costs".
That should show you how important it is to have a relationship with your dealer, it saved me about a $1000.- ($400.- parts and $600.- labor).
On the other issues, the axle, rear shock and gear ratios:
They should replace existing broken axles with the new design!
The rear shock isn't too big a deal, if you race or ride extremely aggressive, chances are you would have it revalved or replace it anyway. If not, it's a good stock shock!
The gear ratios aren't a huge deal to me "personally", but I know others don't care for it, so?
Sorry for ramblin, just my .02
#4
06-15-2001, 11:40 AM
I totally agree. Yamaha should step up and replace all of these for free. Forget lasting years, a Yamaha can't even last through the warranty period before falling apart. Even when something should be fixed under warranty, it is very difficult to make it happen. It is much easier to get automotive warranty work done. It is you against your dealer and Yamaha. Neither of them seems to happy to do warranty work. It is either "normal" or something you must have done. I would have to agree with Yamahas thinking that they should not replace the axle because it is normal for them to bend. Hell, half the people on this forum complain of bent axles so how can I argue that it isn't normal for them to bend. I just love that response.
Problems to date with my Raptor:
- Either my axle splines or the brake and sprocket collars are shot. Lots of play side to side and front to back.
- Bent axle (but hopefully still ridable until the RPM Dominator comes out)
- Steering bushings loose twice - now I don't even worry about having a sloppy steering stem. Hoping RPM will come out with a fix for this design problem too.
- A-arm bushings shot - could this be from the crappy front shocks on this high performance quad? Lots of additional pressure is applied to the upper a-arm bushings when the shocks bottom out. What would be so hard about coming out with at least double rate springs?
- Loose tie-rods (but at least mine haven't broken)
- Front lights leak thus burning the headlight bulbs (I've corrected by sealing them but this is something Yamaha should have done).
- Rear shock doesn't work yet the dealer hasn't heard of anyone having a problem so how could mine be broken? Just push up and down on the shock, change the compression and rebound settings and realize that changing the settings doesn't do a damn thing. Dealer didn't follow up with Yamaha at all but did offer an aftermarket setup.
- Not a direct problem but it does relate to Yamaha changing the gear ratios for 2002. Had to lower to 12 tooth front sprocket to help compensate for the gap between 1st and 2nd. From a mathmatical/engineering perspective, it is impossible to correct this by changing drive gearing - the most you can hope is to correct for one situation versus another.
Bottom line is do not kid yourself into thinking this quad is as bulletproof as a 400ex. Everything about the Raptor is fixable if you are willing to spend more dough and not whine since nobody likes a whiner.
I do regret buying the Raptor but not because of the Raptor itself. I expected some problems. What I didn't expect was a manufacturer and dealer network to turn their heads from the buyers. You know what, the magazines are a part of this too. Don't tell me that none of the writers look at this forum. They know about the problems but never write anything about them. Nothing ever changes if people don't admit the truth. You can't ride it like you stole it because it is Yamaha who stole your money.
All I can say to those who are short on cash but want to ride a quad everyday is not to overlook the 400ex. It is a fun and dependable ride that doesn't require the after purchase bucks to keep it running. If you have unlimited buying dollars and need the thrill of the power and speed of the Raptor then by all means get one too. Join the circle of friends club - by the way the secret handshake is to pretend that nothing is wrong with your great $6,800 purchase.
Problems to date with my Raptor:
- Either my axle splines or the brake and sprocket collars are shot. Lots of play side to side and front to back.
- Bent axle (but hopefully still ridable until the RPM Dominator comes out)
- Steering bushings loose twice - now I don't even worry about having a sloppy steering stem. Hoping RPM will come out with a fix for this design problem too.
- A-arm bushings shot - could this be from the crappy front shocks on this high performance quad? Lots of additional pressure is applied to the upper a-arm bushings when the shocks bottom out. What would be so hard about coming out with at least double rate springs?
- Loose tie-rods (but at least mine haven't broken)
- Front lights leak thus burning the headlight bulbs (I've corrected by sealing them but this is something Yamaha should have done).
- Rear shock doesn't work yet the dealer hasn't heard of anyone having a problem so how could mine be broken? Just push up and down on the shock, change the compression and rebound settings and realize that changing the settings doesn't do a damn thing. Dealer didn't follow up with Yamaha at all but did offer an aftermarket setup.
- Not a direct problem but it does relate to Yamaha changing the gear ratios for 2002. Had to lower to 12 tooth front sprocket to help compensate for the gap between 1st and 2nd. From a mathmatical/engineering perspective, it is impossible to correct this by changing drive gearing - the most you can hope is to correct for one situation versus another.
Bottom line is do not kid yourself into thinking this quad is as bulletproof as a 400ex. Everything about the Raptor is fixable if you are willing to spend more dough and not whine since nobody likes a whiner.
I do regret buying the Raptor but not because of the Raptor itself. I expected some problems. What I didn't expect was a manufacturer and dealer network to turn their heads from the buyers. You know what, the magazines are a part of this too. Don't tell me that none of the writers look at this forum. They know about the problems but never write anything about them. Nothing ever changes if people don't admit the truth. You can't ride it like you stole it because it is Yamaha who stole your money.
All I can say to those who are short on cash but want to ride a quad everyday is not to overlook the 400ex. It is a fun and dependable ride that doesn't require the after purchase bucks to keep it running. If you have unlimited buying dollars and need the thrill of the power and speed of the Raptor then by all means get one too. Join the circle of friends club - by the way the secret handshake is to pretend that nothing is wrong with your great $6,800 purchase.
#5
06-15-2001, 12:08 PM
It's too bad Yamaha doesn't have the support that Honda has. My buddy is shopping for a new quad right now. He really wants to buy a raptor, but is afraid about the tranny issues. He's afraid he'll always be worrying about the tranny breaking on it, so he won't be able to enjoy it as much. He is leaning towards buying a 400ex instead. If yamaha would at least stand behind and admit they have/had a problem, then it would be different.
#6
06-15-2001, 12:30 PM
Now that they have actually changed the 02' models, is there any hope of getting them to correct the problem with the old tranny?
I also agree that the axle was too narrow anyhow, I'd rather put the axle that I want on.
My clutch went after only about 15hrs. My third friction plate was in about 7 pieces. No other problems yet, and I have one of the first Craptors out there. I do however like it and don't mind wrenching on my own stuff but, I don't like being taken for a fool.
Like we don't realize that they WOULD NOT spend extra dollars developing new gear for the 02' models if the ones they had were fine.
Just like the 13 years of virtually unchanged Warriors, Shees, and Blasters. And I do know the slight changes in the models, before everyone starts hammering on me that the "J" arms aren't on the Shees anymore, or the engine mounts on the Warrior have been moved back a bit.
They wouldn't change it if it weren't broke. That would be more cash out of their pockets.
Sorry everyone, just venting a little.
Fool # 0000262
JS
I also agree that the axle was too narrow anyhow, I'd rather put the axle that I want on.
My clutch went after only about 15hrs. My third friction plate was in about 7 pieces. No other problems yet, and I have one of the first Craptors out there. I do however like it and don't mind wrenching on my own stuff but, I don't like being taken for a fool.
Like we don't realize that they WOULD NOT spend extra dollars developing new gear for the 02' models if the ones they had were fine.
Just like the 13 years of virtually unchanged Warriors, Shees, and Blasters. And I do know the slight changes in the models, before everyone starts hammering on me that the "J" arms aren't on the Shees anymore, or the engine mounts on the Warrior have been moved back a bit.
They wouldn't change it if it weren't broke. That would be more cash out of their pockets.
Sorry everyone, just venting a little.
Fool # 0000262
JS
#7
06-15-2001, 01:23 PM
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#8
06-15-2001, 01:58 PM
On the axle...you can bet that Yamaha will NEVER fix the 2001 models (although I do feel that this is not a problem with all 2001 Raptors).
Tranny...the new transmission ratios will be very interesting....maybe tighten up the gap between 1st and 2nd? Have 5th gear 1 to 1 instead of 1 to .904? Don't just assume that these new ratios will work better though.
Rear shock...I would think the new rear shock will allow the machine to slide better (in conjunction with the new tires). Think about it....why would Yamaha not upgrade the front shocks and bolt on an even better rear shock?
Tranny...the new transmission ratios will be very interesting....maybe tighten up the gap between 1st and 2nd? Have 5th gear 1 to 1 instead of 1 to .904? Don't just assume that these new ratios will work better though.
Rear shock...I would think the new rear shock will allow the machine to slide better (in conjunction with the new tires). Think about it....why would Yamaha not upgrade the front shocks and bolt on an even better rear shock?
#9
06-15-2001, 06:35 PM
the thing about it is they arent goin to admit to any problem!! hahaha just ask any dealer. the ones i have spoke with say they havent seen any problems other than abuse. the one dealer attributed the tranny problems to abuse. yeah in a pigs eye!! every single 2001 raptor owner should take the time and call that yamaha # and complain. imagine if 20,000+ phone calls was made to the same #!!! that would be hilarious. or better yet a class action lawsuit should be filed on behalf of all 2001 owners.
just my thoughts/
just my thoughts/
