Dirt Wheels Raptor pipe shootout
#41
01-09-2002, 08:21 PM
The HMF Quiet Core with spark arrestor might pass the Oregon db test. It is barely louder than stock, yet gives a huge boost. Obviously not as much as the too loud slip-ons, but worth a try, it's a really nice pipe, sounds good, looks great.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img]
#42
01-10-2002, 12:36 AM
2strokediehard,
I haven't seen good results with the pro-circuit. A friend of mine has the full setup. I agree that the GYTR should have been reviewed as well.
The CT dyno is totally appropriate. They use a california model as the base and they state it in plain english in the first paragraph of their website:
"CT Racing Has been working very hard on the Yamaha Raptor. We're proud to announce our kit has the largest Horse Power increase we've ever seen from bolt on kits. This kit consists of our CT Pipe and Supertrapp spark arrestor, Pro Design Pro Flow Air filter kit and jet set for. We picked up a minimum of 7 HP at 3000 RPM and 32 HP at 8500. This is a Must have kit for the Raptor. Stock Hp is just over 33 HP and were hitting almost 50 with just this kit. We did our testing on a California model. The end result is the same 49 state models have slightly more HP stock (rumored to be around 37). "
They don't modify the CDI. I can verify that their kit has a very obvious power increase over stock.
It's hard to satisfy everyone. If all DW tested were slip-ons with no airbox mods, then everyone would be screaming about full kits, and filter kits. The manufacturers which participated in the review would have had kittens if they didn't test the pipes as per their recommendations. Take the review for what it's worth. Unless you want to devote a whole magazine to the different categories:
Slip on only ( no airbox mods)
Full system (no airbox mods)
Slip on with airbox mods (no jetting or filter kits)
Full system with airbox mods (no jetting or filter kits)
Slip on with airbox mod, filter kit, and jetting
Full system with airbox mod, filter kit and jetting
Stock with airbox mod
Stock with airbox mod, filter kit and jetting
Hey, it's not perfect, but it was an interesting read.
RM
I haven't seen good results with the pro-circuit. A friend of mine has the full setup. I agree that the GYTR should have been reviewed as well.
The CT dyno is totally appropriate. They use a california model as the base and they state it in plain english in the first paragraph of their website:
"CT Racing Has been working very hard on the Yamaha Raptor. We're proud to announce our kit has the largest Horse Power increase we've ever seen from bolt on kits. This kit consists of our CT Pipe and Supertrapp spark arrestor, Pro Design Pro Flow Air filter kit and jet set for. We picked up a minimum of 7 HP at 3000 RPM and 32 HP at 8500. This is a Must have kit for the Raptor. Stock Hp is just over 33 HP and were hitting almost 50 with just this kit. We did our testing on a California model. The end result is the same 49 state models have slightly more HP stock (rumored to be around 37). "
They don't modify the CDI. I can verify that their kit has a very obvious power increase over stock.
It's hard to satisfy everyone. If all DW tested were slip-ons with no airbox mods, then everyone would be screaming about full kits, and filter kits. The manufacturers which participated in the review would have had kittens if they didn't test the pipes as per their recommendations. Take the review for what it's worth. Unless you want to devote a whole magazine to the different categories:
Slip on only ( no airbox mods)
Full system (no airbox mods)
Slip on with airbox mods (no jetting or filter kits)
Full system with airbox mods (no jetting or filter kits)
Slip on with airbox mod, filter kit, and jetting
Full system with airbox mod, filter kit and jetting
Stock with airbox mod
Stock with airbox mod, filter kit and jetting
Hey, it's not perfect, but it was an interesting read.
RM
#43
01-10-2002, 08:35 AM
rennym,
What your saying is the same you get the same result from only bolting on CT pipe, filter setup, and jets on both the CALI. and 49st. Raptor ? I have looked into this and the stock pipes on both bikes are the same pipe, so I don't really see how changing just the pipe can gain the extra 3-4HP on the CALI. model !! The only thing that is different is the CDI. Why would someone at CT tell me this was changed if it wasn't ?? If the info I obtained when looking into this is wrong and anyone else can back up the theory of not changing the CDI and getting the extra HP then I will take back anything I said in my previous post and apologize for it !!
As for the shoot out goes I still think there was plenty of better ways to do it then the way it was done.
What your saying is the same you get the same result from only bolting on CT pipe, filter setup, and jets on both the CALI. and 49st. Raptor ? I have looked into this and the stock pipes on both bikes are the same pipe, so I don't really see how changing just the pipe can gain the extra 3-4HP on the CALI. model !! The only thing that is different is the CDI. Why would someone at CT tell me this was changed if it wasn't ?? If the info I obtained when looking into this is wrong and anyone else can back up the theory of not changing the CDI and getting the extra HP then I will take back anything I said in my previous post and apologize for it !!
As for the shoot out goes I still think there was plenty of better ways to do it then the way it was done.
#44
01-10-2002, 11:00 AM
What RENNYM does not tell you is that he is a full blown "CT Fan"
Rennym, you fail to respond to the other points of the article. For example, DW's failure to state that Alan did the tests at his shop and participated with his own pipe. CT does not explain the "funny business" with the Trinity and Graydon dyno curves. CT failed to include torque curves that would also help explain "problems" with the tests. From what I have learned, none of the pipe manufacturers were ever told that CT was doing the tests, that it was a dyno shootout only and that no consideration should be given to the ability of the atv to run in various conditions (water/mud), or the altitude of the test. Sure CT states in the article that other pipes could have displayed higher numbers with different jetting BUT that does not help when he had the opportunity to run his up to peak power and then post the misleading graphs. We all know that the graphs are what sell the pipes -- who is kidding who. Heck, he could not even get the info correct on the construction of the Trinity Pipe.
GO to CT's own web site. THere is some additional "questionable" advertising. Comparing a full system to a very stock machine. Sure the results are impressive. If he was really being fair though, he should have ran his full pipe against a tip only. REASON WHY IT WAS NOT DONE -- BECAUSE A TIP ONLY (properly jetted with air box mods) will produce MORE TORQUE than his pipe.
In my opinion, the shootout was simply a way for ALAN to get a free ad and it should have been published as such (THIS IS A CT ADVERTISEMENT -- TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT)
Rennym, you fail to respond to the other points of the article. For example, DW's failure to state that Alan did the tests at his shop and participated with his own pipe. CT does not explain the "funny business" with the Trinity and Graydon dyno curves. CT failed to include torque curves that would also help explain "problems" with the tests. From what I have learned, none of the pipe manufacturers were ever told that CT was doing the tests, that it was a dyno shootout only and that no consideration should be given to the ability of the atv to run in various conditions (water/mud), or the altitude of the test. Sure CT states in the article that other pipes could have displayed higher numbers with different jetting BUT that does not help when he had the opportunity to run his up to peak power and then post the misleading graphs. We all know that the graphs are what sell the pipes -- who is kidding who. Heck, he could not even get the info correct on the construction of the Trinity Pipe.
GO to CT's own web site. THere is some additional "questionable" advertising. Comparing a full system to a very stock machine. Sure the results are impressive. If he was really being fair though, he should have ran his full pipe against a tip only. REASON WHY IT WAS NOT DONE -- BECAUSE A TIP ONLY (properly jetted with air box mods) will produce MORE TORQUE than his pipe.
In my opinion, the shootout was simply a way for ALAN to get a free ad and it should have been published as such (THIS IS A CT ADVERTISEMENT -- TAKE IT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT)
#45
01-10-2002, 11:44 AM
2strokediehard,
I wasn't aware of the CDI modifications on the california model. I haven't talked to CT and verified that there were no modifications in their dyno run, so you could be correct here, and being that you spoke with them, I have to go along with your findings. It is still a massive increase.
Raptor720, I am a fan of getting what I paid for, and having the product meet my expectations. I was one of the first guys to get a Raptor, and when they first came out, the exhaust market was just heating up. If you look back in the posts on this board, you can find endless questions about jetting, combinations of slip ons, filters, head pipes, airbox modifications, hp increases, etc.
CT comes along and advertises that if you use his kit (more than just bolting on an exhaust), these are the results you will get, compared to a stock machine. This is exactly what I wanted. And his results are true. That is what makes me a fan.
I agree with you that dyno charts do not give an accurate picture of how rideable and useful an exhaust really is. I just finished reading the pipe shootout for the CR450F, and they ride all the pipes. Some make the power too early and taper off, causing short shifts, different riding style, etc.
And in my previous message, the shootout wasn't as scientific and logical as I would like, so you can't get all the information you are looking for. But you can't get it from this board either. No one has all the pipes and the exact setups. So I agree, take it for what its worth.
RM
I wasn't aware of the CDI modifications on the california model. I haven't talked to CT and verified that there were no modifications in their dyno run, so you could be correct here, and being that you spoke with them, I have to go along with your findings. It is still a massive increase.
Raptor720, I am a fan of getting what I paid for, and having the product meet my expectations. I was one of the first guys to get a Raptor, and when they first came out, the exhaust market was just heating up. If you look back in the posts on this board, you can find endless questions about jetting, combinations of slip ons, filters, head pipes, airbox modifications, hp increases, etc.
CT comes along and advertises that if you use his kit (more than just bolting on an exhaust), these are the results you will get, compared to a stock machine. This is exactly what I wanted. And his results are true. That is what makes me a fan.
I agree with you that dyno charts do not give an accurate picture of how rideable and useful an exhaust really is. I just finished reading the pipe shootout for the CR450F, and they ride all the pipes. Some make the power too early and taper off, causing short shifts, different riding style, etc.
And in my previous message, the shootout wasn't as scientific and logical as I would like, so you can't get all the information you are looking for. But you can't get it from this board either. No one has all the pipes and the exact setups. So I agree, take it for what its worth.
RM
#47
01-22-2002, 04:47 PM
I was just wondering how you know who did the tests. I don't remember reading who did them in the magazine. Also, not to start anything with Raptor720 because I appreciate his posts, but why do you have it in so bad for CT? Just curious. Is it just over this? It seems like there is more that I am missing, something from another post maybe.
#48
01-30-2002, 02:17 PM
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#50
01-30-2002, 02:57 PM
