Plus modifying (drilling ) into your case ?

 

If I drill and tap your clutch cover it cost $10.

 

You're missing my point, I'm just saying most people want a simple,quick bolt on,and using the oil filter cover with lines on it is the simplest,and least invasive (no drilling into the case)plus you can easily put it back to stock by merely replacing the old filter cover.No removing the cover, shipping for mods, no holes. I'm not saying your way is not correct, but if bolt on parts are available, why not use them? dropping the oil temp,no matter where it comes out or goes in,is a good thing for the motor,and will make it last longer. Don't mean to start a 'who's right' war,just giving the man a suggestion,and looking at the setup kiwi had,it looks darn good,too.

Thats all I have to say!!,sorry for taking up everyones time.

 

I would think that most people would want the best setup for their quad, not the "simplest". As far as being "invasive", I take it you've never changed a clutch or adjusted valves? And if you add something that improves performance and engine life, why would you want to take it back to stock? Just wondering. You have a kit available from an engine builder (Mickey) that from an engineering standpoint has the best concept, and you want to try and hack something together just to say you have an oil cooler.

 

95Warrior: While I'm not saying either method cools better than the other,
I see 95Wolv's point regarding the oil cooler that come stock on the other Yamahas and I agree with him.

You are still cooling the oil, just in a different place. Yamaha is an engine builder too arent they?

I'm not taking anything away from Mickey Dunlap, he has experience in Yamaha's that other engine builders have ignored when it comes to modifying Yamahas, but 95Warrior, you are discussing the matter in a way that is giving the expression of you kissing butt and looking for a future discount.

The cooler works fine from the oil filter cover and I'm sure it works from the actual side case as well.

So, they both work. Woo Hoo.

KNOWSALOT

 

Question for Mickey:

One) where does the oil go once it has pasted through the oil filter / oil cooler element ! Through the case passage to the bottom end if I'm not mistaken ?. Yes there is some reheat from the engine cases as it travels across the engine case, a distance of what, 4 to 5 inches ?.

Two) the OEM yam cooler block has a pressure drop bypass valve, rip a hose off and it bypasses the cooler straight to the bottom end, what happens if you rip a hose off on your setup ? instant seize ? With the yam oem setup at least you get home.

three) are you still using those automotive tranny cooler elements ?, calculate the following numbers, surface diameter of the element tube divided by element tube cross sectional area, a circular copper tube cooler value is considerably lower than the Bike type "flat" tube element, you want the highest surface area per cross sectional area of oil.

Secondly calculate the total surface area of the circular tube element versus the massive area of a big bear "flat" tube type element,I'm not talking cooling fins but element tube area. Heat radiation is a function of oil volume to surface area of the element, the larger the surface area and the narrower the internal width of the element passage the more efficent the cooling ratio. You do NOT get a pressure loss because the flow is spread across the entire flat tube type element, velocity is actually reduced increasing contact time with the element core = higher heat transfer.

Combine these three componets and you have a way more efficent cooling element than the single pass copper tube type elements. Big external cooling fins do not make up for an inefficent design.

There is a simple reason why all high heat transfer elements (oil, water and turbocharger intercooler) are essentially an automotive radiator cross section in profile, highest heat transfer per unit area.

Cheaper IS NOT better in this instance..................

I'll stick with the Yamaha oem setup............. The heat reduction was amazing, it bolts on and it works and it's pretty fool proof.

As with anything custom, time and patience results in a clean setup. We have perfected the layout from my orginal setup complete with anaodised Russel fittings etc etc

We have no problems getting good quality bike oil cooler second hand as well as good Big bear units, a really nice ATV oil cooler is the suzuki king quad coolers complete with high volume electric fan. I'd be looking at one of those for my next Warrior conversion.

Kiwi

 

What I'm pushing is the CONCEPT, I don't care who came up with it. Like I said in my earlier post, "from an engineering standpoint it it the best concept". Kind of like Fortin's forged gearset is the best concept over the cast crap that's currently in my Raptor's transmission. Kudos to ANYONE (not just Mickey) who refuses to prostitute themselves to the status quo and comes up with a better way of doing things. This is what pushes the envelope. Another example is Boyesen water pump covers and impellers for the YZ 125/250's. Sure, Yamaha's stock stuff cools the engine, but Boyesen's equipment cools the engine better, takes it to a higher level. As far as "future discounts", thanks to the Snap-On man, I do my own work. OH NO! Here we go again. Craftsman or S&K tools work, but Snap-On has the best CONCEPT (there's that word again) and the best execution. Sorry if I came across wrong.

 

Thanks for all the feedback that you guys have given. It's nice to see people who know what they are talking about. Here is what I have done: In 14 years of selling this system, I have not had 1 customer call back and say he ripped his lines off but I have had several say "what if this happended?". My answer is simple. If you did cut a line, you would simply take the longer line and eliminate the oil cooler itself and put it back into the engine by simply looping the oil line around and connecting it back on the motor. As far as my cooler goes, it's not like most of them. This has a core in it that takes the hot oil which runs through the center of the line and forces it to the outside and spins it as it runs through the tube and it makes a more efficient cooling system. I try to keep things simple. I take the reading with my Intercomp electronic thermometer of the oil going into the cooler and then the oil temperature coming out to find out how good the cooler actually works. I have just done this test on the 400EX's which I am using the same cooler on and we were able to lower the oil temperature up to 50 degrees in some cases. We also do the same thing and dump the cold oil into the highest wear area of the engine which is the cam and rocker arms on Hondas. The bottom line here is to increase the longevity of your motor. I study each motor when they come in. The Yamaha's have problems with the rod bearing and the top end rod eye. Back 10 years ago when I did most of my testing on oil temperatures I was racing for Yamaha in the cross-country nationals on a Warrior the oil temperature would get up to 260 to 280 degrees. Most 20/50 oils break down at about 250 degrees and 10/40's at 220 degrees. This is why I see so many Warrior engines worn out before their time. When we put the oil cooler system on them, we can get the oil down between 220 and 240 degrees and save the motor from prematurely wearing out. The other thing with my oil cooler is you can grab ahold of it 5 minutes after you have stopped riding and it's completely cold. This is about the simplest test of heat dissipation as you can do. Grab ahold of yours and see hold long it takes for it to cool down. On the 400EX, my cooler runs 100 degrees cooler than the stock unit which we also keep on the machine as a secondary unit as we do on the Wolverines. Thanks again for your input. Hope this explains things a little better for you.

 

Mickey, thanks for the insight on the "turbulated cooler core" I think you would find an even bigger temp drop with the oem / bike type cooler elements ? would be an interesting experiment.

I was surpised that the temp drops where not larger than you had seen ? I think i'd be going for a rugged electric fan assembly on the cooler ala suzuki king quad next time around.

My warrior engine used to get so hot it would refuse to rev out and I was getting heat burn through my rhs riding boot. You could not hold a gloved hand on the clutch side case. The engine would stay cooking hot for 1/2 hr to an 1 hr after a hard days riding, literally smouldering........

After the cooler, I could just hold a bare hand on the engine side case and the engine would be pretty well cold after 15 - 20 mins after shut down. Oil capacity was increased also by about another 250ml's. I was planning to do temp tests but had a great offer on the bike so I sold the old girl and moved to my LT - R.

I've seen two guys rip lines off in the last 18 months ? none of them where doing any extreme crashing through undergrowth stuff either, just a stick through the frame at the wrong place, have to admit one of them was only using hose clamps onto the cooler, i prefer and would recommend that anyone doing a setup uses decent quality mechanical hose fittings and multi layer stainless steel sheathed high presssure hose (rated for hydraulic excavators etc) rather than some of the lighter single layer hose avaialble.

A digression from the topic but something that I've seen twice now that was very expensive for one poor owner: I've also seen a similar thing on two Bombardiers, where they have been rolled over to the LHS, ok no big deal but the roll over impact on the body plastic sheared of the oil return line off of the oil tank underneath, they kept riding, hey where's all this oil coming from.......... sieze, brand new bike....... no warranty on that, accident damage.... ouch. First time I thought it was a fluke, second time, differnt quad, the guy caught it in time, towed home...... Bombardier owners I'd suggest getting a decent steel fitting up in there, the oem is a muck metal thing.

kiwi

 

Alternatives to second hand motorcycle elements:


Jagg.
cooler set up

Jagg oil coolers

The Jagg unit is in White Bros catalogue also.

Perma-cool:

perma-cool

Fluiddyne:
Baker perf

Kiwi