my post was ref. the cannibal/z400/400ex shootout,just to clarify

 

The Z400 and 400EX are both designed so that Joe Shmoe and anyone else can own and enjoy one. Very simple low maintenance machines. Just like the Raptor is. from what I keep reading and hearing on the Cannon. it's a long ways from being a simple machine to run trails with. And they appear to be having some teething problems. And I only paid 5099.00 for my Z and I could have had the Raptor for 5699.00 both of those machines are a bunch cheaper than the Cannondale's around here. Dirt Wheels basically said the same thing that a few here on the forum have. The Z is a machine that the average rider can enjoy and ride trails and the like with. The Cannon was faster in a drag and faster on the track but only if experienced riders were on it. What percentage of the time is the average quad rider on a dragstrip or in a MX race compared to blasting down a trail. My Z won't flood when I start it. My wife and son can ride it, I don't have to leave it on a trickle charger to keep the battery up, it hasn't stranded me on any long trail rides and if I went back and looked back over the Cannon forum I could probably find more reasons that the Cannon is not exactly in the user friendly class. Race quad, Yes, fast, yes but for the average person no. And the Raptor was to me just as easy to ride as the Z is. The only power difference when stock is only at the top of 4th and 5th gear.

 

you make some valid points zook but what does high performance and average quad rider have to do with one another...
the "average"quad rider owns a honda 300 4x4,not a high performance quad.
the"average" quad rider is never on a mx track,why was the shootout performed on a mx track?
why wasnt the quad that had the highest performance level at the so called shootout given the high performance crown.
this isnt about whether or not your wife and son can ride this quad its about $$$$$$(advertising dollars)

 

All good points, but I would have to disagree with

<< the &quot;average&quot;quad rider owns a honda 300 4x4 >>


That would be the grandfather of the average quad owner.
To me nothing you can buy, in stock form &quot;right off the show room floor&quot; is a HIGH PERFORMANCE quad.
None of them will do much over 70MPH.
None of them will do an impressive 1/8th or 1/4 mile drag.
Not the Z, Raptor, Cannondale, or any of them.
Just a whole bunch of fun to ride.

HIGH PERFORMANCE would be a $20000 MX machine, Desert racer, Hill climber or whatever.

Maybe thats just my description though.

 

I have to say that I got a kick out of Raptor660RNH's post!! LOLx4

I have a couple of friends who own Canondales..........Man were theyHOT[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img] after they read the DirtWheels artical!!

Whenever I want to get them going all I have to do is mention that Nobel Winning artical in Dirt Wheels. Ha ha[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

I just came back from Silver Lake Sand Dunes and there were three Z400's there, 2 yellow and 1 white. I didn't see and of them participate in the drag racing though, they were just watching. I did talk to one of them about his and he said he really liked it. He said that he was racing a Raptor up a sand hill and he felt that he had one. I just wonder if the guy on the Raptor knew he was racing?? I saw him out by himself and I flanked him for a while to see if he wanted to make any kind of run but he didn't.

They do look like they are nice machines, but they have really hyped them up. They are listed and a nice price. I just wonder how the Preditor is going to come in price wise?? If they have it as high strung as the Z400 &amp; C-Dales it should clean house. It's nice to see the competition pushing companies to build performance machines like they are now. Yamaha needs to go ahead and just produce the Raptor with at least a 10.5:1 piston in stock form so their big 660 runs like it should.

Anyway.............TWO THUMBS UP Raptor660RNH

 

Its the same old song

1st the 400ex would replace the 250r
2nd the ds650 was king of the dunes
3rd the raptor was the most fierce machine on earth
4th the cannondale is the ultimate race machine
and 5th the z400 can jump out of choppers

Just ride,have fun ,be safe and smart about riding.

 

I just recently bought a new Raptor. I went down to the Suzuki dealership with intentions on buying a Z400, as I new that they set lower and were wider than the Raptor. I had read numerous articles that said that the Raptor was a little tippier than a 400ex so I thought that the Z400 would be better for me, as I didn't want a tippy quad. But there was one article that I read that clarified it a little better. They said that the Raptor was &quot;slightly&quot; tippier than the 400ex, but only a professional rider would be able to tell the difference. Well, I am not professional rider. Anyway, to get back to my story, no one at the Suzuki dealership would help me. I finally left, and went to another one, and had the same sort of results, they were real busy, and no one so much as said a word to me. So I figured what the heck, I'll go over and take a look at the Raptors. I walked in, and was immediately greeted. I looked at the Raptors, and ask if they were willing to make a deal, as I had been looking at the Z400. To make a long story short, I wound up buying the Raptor for $4,850.00! Way cheaper than a Z400! I have ridden it a good bit now and don't see what all the fuss about the Raptor being tippy, it is not. It handles very well, and if you are going to push it so hard that it may become &quot;tippy&quot; then you just use a little body english. I don't ride MX courses, but on the trails and in the dunes it is sweet!

The Z400 is a nice machine, but after looking at both machines I felt that the fit and finish on the Raptor was a little better, also the Raptor is past its first year &quot;teething&quot; problems. The Z400 has good power, as it comes a little hotter from the factory, higher compression, and a little hotter cam. More power can be had from it, but I don't think that it has the power potential of the Raptor, as the Z400 all ready has higher compression than the Raptor. All in all they are both good quads, it just boils down to personal preference. I prefer that awesome power pull of the Raptor, as well as the looks. To me it just seams that Suzuki ripped off the looks of the Raptor. It's a good quad, but when you think about it, it is kind of disappointing the way Suzuki did it. They copied the frame and suspension of the Honda 400ex, so that it would handle as well, and then they copied the looks of the Raptor. I think that the new Predator is going to be a much better machine, as at least it is all-original! Looking back and thinking about it, I'm glad that I didn't buy the Z400. It's not hard to build a good machine if you simply copy the best qualities of the competition, rather than trying to build your own original machine.

 

The 4 or 5 Raptors I've rode and rode with must have been bad examples. They were all stock and felt no different power wise than the Z did. And the 2 to 3 length advantage for the Raptor from 4th gear on confirmed this. In stock form i think the Raptor is very disappointing in comparison to the 398cc that the Z400 has. If you broke both quads down in a horsepower per cc comparison the Z has way more horsepower per cc that the underpowered 660. I believe I have seen this done somewhere and if the Raptor had the same horsepower per cc has the Z has it would make over 60 horsepower in stock form. And yes I know they pick up with aftermarket add-ons and the aftermarket has a wealth of stuff for them but for the average trail rider I just can't see him being able to tell a difference between the two in the woods. However if I could have bought one for 4850.00 like the guy above mentioned I most certainly would have. The dealer I bought my Z at for 5099.00 also had Raptors for 5699.00 and that was the best deal until now that I've seen on a 2002 Raptor. I took the Z simply because of the price difference and I don't live near the dunes like several of the lucky ones on here do so other than a pipe and airbox mod I won't be doing many mods. You can't take advantage of them in tight woods anyway.

 

I saw that HP per CC post once before. Everyone knows the Raptor does come from the factory choked off. It's kinda like putting a gas mask on a sprinter. Once it can breath, you can really take advantage of the 660. And yes, the compression is low from the factory. But, back to the HP per CC thing, what about the torque? Isn't torque what pulls you out of corners. Isn't it the higher torque numbers the reason why the raptor is pulling ahead in 4th gear, when the Z's torque runs out? I just think that Yamaha deliberately detuned the 660. You get a detuned 660. Which, is still slightly more powerful than a hopped up 400. So, it's more powerful than the 400's stock for stock. That's established. Now let's start on the basic mods. Pipe, filter, and re-jet. Now race them again. Next you put your 440 kit in, and the raptor will go with the 686 or 727 kit. Now race them again. The fact is, the Raptor is more powerful stock for stock, and as you add mods, it gains power expotentialy compared to 400's. As far as the whole suspension debate. It's not that much better. Like in a previous post, you'd think you where comparing the Porsche Carrera GT to a Radio Flyer wagon. That's how these posts seem to compare the Raptors handling to the EX's and Z's of the world. I just rode an EX on Tuesday, and really expected this HUGE difference in handling. I rode trails, uphills, downhills, turns, whoops, 6 foot jumps. I mean, I expected this thing to just soak it all up. I thought I was gonna be able to fly over that stuff 30 mph faster than I can on my raptor. The truth is, I really felt the lack of power when I tried to come out of turns, and the excelleration in the straights was real disappointing. I couldn't wait to get on my Raptor again, after that experience.

As far as the shootout in dirtwheels, I just had to shake my head. The name of the article was &quot;High Performance Shootout&quot;. It wasn't &quot;Average rider, comfy shootout&quot;. They should of changed the article to, &quot;Which new 400 class quad feels most like your lazy boy chair&quot;.

 

I agree with KDRaptor. I was with him when he rode the Z400 and the first thing he told me is that it wasnt even close to tha Raptor. I was pushing him to buy the Z400, Sorry Suzuki I tried. He said the Raptor would eat it up. So I asked the guy with the Z to race but he didnt want to. I like the Z my self but it is over rated. I still thing if your price shoping its a good deal compared to the EX but remember its new and they want to sell them. So dont beleive everything you read untill you ride them both.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] Thanks KDRaptor (Pro MX Racer).