I re-read the thread and saw no comments about Chinese manufacturers making crappy trains.......all references have been to the joke that Chinese manufacturers could compete in the ATV market.

Im quite sure Chinese manufacturers make some quality products.....just not in the ATV market. They are making cheap ATVs to flood the market for profit......there is little to no warranty, dealer network or support. Its obvious they arent in the same league as the others. They have had the time.....hell when Honda started over here with powersports products they almost immediately started a dealer network......as well as the American Honda Motor Co. They established themselves.

Wanna bet that train has more than a 90 day warranty......wanna bet that train has a company backing it that will show up and perform should the need arise.....Im sure thats the case.

Your comparing apples to watermelon.

 

You are surely right - comparing atv to trains is not reasonable. I was really responding on MWQ's skepticism that China could/would ever make world class ATVs. My reference to the world's fastest train going online in China shows they have capability that could easily produce world class ATVs if that is what they wanted to do.

I agree with all your points and each one could be achieved if that is what they wanted to do bad enough. But as you say, they just found a product hole in the big brand lineups and just want to dump as much cheap product as possible. I know the Chinese government has zero strategic plan or objective that making great ATV is going to improve or aid their goal to dominate the global marketplace.

To me China dumping cheap stuff for profit and virtually no support is the joke, not that they are unable to compete in the ATV market. They have just chosen to make money buy selling cheap as stuff at the bottom of the market.

 

I dont quite understand how Communism inside of China plays a role in day to day business. I know they (meaning the government) likely have more direct control over commerce and manufacturing then say the government here....but I doubt China as a whole really makes anything. Likely there are some real world class companies in that country.....and then there are some duds. Surely if one of the good ones tackled an ATV then they may make a go of it. Problem is that (apparently) the government has no problems with the copy, mass produce, dump and leave business strategy that is at play in the ATV market - thats going to make it hard to compete.

Its going to be real hard for a Chinese company to really be a player at this point....any ATV coming out of the country gets all the bad labels applied to it from the prior companies by default. Maybe someday that will be unjustly so.....but as of now its all been deserved really. There are some that dont suck as bad as others.....but they all suck plenty.

Hell me and you could make a world class ATV if we wanted to (and had the capital)......we would likely go bankrupt doing it.....but man what a bitching ATV it would be.

 

Well, the fact it is a dictatorship and not a democracy make quite a difference in influencing, rather controlling and dictating, policy that defines political and economic direction. The Party needed to at least start experimenting with free enterprise and global commerce. They did this by establishing specific areas within the country where policy, funding, incentives, etc. were established to encourage economic develoment. They built huge business parks they just let for free to those who wanted to start enterprises. They encouraged labor to come from rural areas to fuel the labor demands. This gives you an idea of how the Party drives commerce.

Reasons why chinese goods are so cheap here are because they do things like offer below market cost to developing businesses. They make raw materials available at subsided rates to undercut global competition. The icing on the cake is they control foreign exchange, keeping the yuan depressed, further making chinese goods cheap on the global market. Just another flavor of "dumping" product and commodities at under market prices.

All this is government directed and controls long range as well as daily business operations.

Keeping this thread ON topic, the Chinese don't give a rat's *** about ATVs and just allow it to be a free for all as long it creates jobs, uses raw materials, and adds to the trade surplus.

Not sure what you meant by "I doubt China as a whole really makes anything". Other than the obvious enormous manufacturing capabilities and exporting to all global countries in everything from screws, bolts, tainted wallboard, toys, shoes, clothing, etc etc.

China has directed their economic development through a manufacturing phase. India on the other hand is skipping this and focusing on developing a service economy, much like the US and other western economies. They are able to do this primarily due to massive English language use and sheer strength of academic infrastructure. You know the country that prints the most English material in the world - India.

Look, I am not some pro commy china advocate. Just commenting on what is just in its early stage of a long term economic development cycle. It just seems many people do not appreciate the sheer magnitude and potential of China. AT&T has 79.6 million subscribers. China Mobile has 471 million, the largest subscriber base of any global telecom company.

I just think motorsports is not part of the domestic leisure landscape. I don't hear of any GP or Formula races at a China venue or racers waving a Chinese flag. So, ATVs are basically background noise of the din of industrial machinery.

 

By that I was referring to everyone making comments like "China cant make decent youth ATVs"......my point being they treat the country of China like the manufacturer when in reality we are speaking about several companies that range from halfway decent to horrible.......not a single entity which every one labels with the name China.

Point being "China doesnt make anything".....Chinese manufacturers do, its pointless to generalize and label everyone based on geographic location.

 

China can and does make good stuff in some industries... if you ask their companies to do so and give the a set of specs to meet etc.

If you ask them to make a copy of product "A" and make it as cheap as possible they will! But as we all know looks don't mean a darn thing!!

 

I understand what you mean about making country wide generalizations. I think it is more semantic. When a statement like, "China can't make a decent quad", most understand that the term "manufacturer" needs to be inserted after China.

I still stand by my view that China certainly has the capability and capacity to produce a fine ATV. The reason is as you say they do not want to try to be a big name in that business because of the large investment that would have to be made to build out a dealer network, parts supply chain, advertising, etc. It adds a lot to the cost to each unit and that is part of why the china quads sell for less.

At least we agree the quads coming from China are pretty crappy and cheap and parts and support are not easy to come by.

 

China can make good grade stuff in nearly any industry. The question is how many established industries offer sufficient market opportunity to invest and clear enough space to get equal space at the playing table.

As you state, they can produce fine goods if given good specs, sufficient budget to produce with adequate quality raw materials, skilled labor, QA, and sufficient margin to be profitable. And we all know they are great at making cheap ***, low quality, bargain basement priced crap too.

Just seems like it is time to say the old saying again, "you get what you pay for". I am sure you can add half dozen more related ones as well.

 

The list is endless of the stuff China produces. This quad thing is a drop in the bucket really. The blanket statements China can't make anything that isn't junk is just plain silly.

I'm not saying I agree with what's happening now a days with all the imported goods, products, parts, food etc. etc. It's just the way it is.

 

Id say this is way off topic..

What ever Chinese trains have to do with Chinese ATV's is beyond my comprehension..

Ill just shut up and wait for the world beater quad/ATV to arrive(not going to be holding my breath while I wait if any of you mind).