That simply isn't true. In the 1960s and 1970s, imported Japanese products were synonmous with junk in the minds of American consumers.

 

Well, sorry to disappoint, but I have nothing to do with any type of Chinese businesses or industries. I'm a one-man software/web/consulting shop. My closest association with Chinese business interestes is that, like many other Americans, I buy Chinese made products because that's whats available in the price range I can afford. Some work well, some don't.

What I am expressing here is simply an opinion based on lessons gleaned from a few decades of business experience and some academic study.

It's not a personal issue. My life won't be dramatically altered one way or another if the Chinese ever make an ATV that's better than one made by Yamaha or Artic Cat. This is just a discussion.

 

fantastic point!

 

You can't realistically compare the two- you're talking about less then a generation gap since Pearl Harbor, animosity still very fresh in the American mind!

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbstern

Why tens of billions of dollars to make ATVs?

Fair enough- maybe not tens of billions, but more then what it would take to make it a lucrative option for the Chinese to consider... especially given their current reputation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbstern

It's not an either/or choice. They are perfectly capable of being in both the high and low ends of the market at the same time. Certainly no shortage of desire, capacity, or capital.

Their reputation will prevent them from ever becoming an accepted standard in quality at which atv's are built.
It will all come down to my (american) choice- Like I said, even if
the chinese start to build quality atv's- they still won't sell.
American's equate cost with quality- and we always have. If the chinese produce more expensive atv's (better parts & engineering) Americans will still buy from the other known 7 manufactures first because of local support networks and reputation (not a fact, but damn strong point)- if the chinese build higher quality atv's and priced them low, american's will still equate the cheap price with poor quality.... and won't buy it. We're talking business ethics here- not business models- and it's the ethics that'll keep the chinese out of the main stream atv market.

Look at it like this-

You walk into a dealer, in front of you, two atv's... same size with similar features, one is a chinese "knock-off" priced at $5900 and boasting a multi colored sign on it "Built With High Quality Parts!!!"

the other is a brand new Yamaha Grizzly 700 priced at $6400...

I'd bet the house that the Yamaha would outsell 5:1 the chinese knock-off.

Also- the Chinese would have to provide financing incentives. Yamaha for example will offer 3.9% financing for 3 years and $1000 cash back. Chinese markets would have to compete with incentives similar to this.

Trust me- It's just not going to happen- not with off-road / on road vehicles, not in our lifetime.

 

Perception and reality are 2 different things... Im dealing with reality...

 

We agree on that!

 

I think back then you still had ill feelings towards anything Japanese due to WWII. The quality of the product was in fact better than the chinese stuff you're seeing now. I believe it was either the '73 or '74 Honda CB750 that one of the motorcycle mags at the time call the most advanced bike made.

China's perception of selling junk comes from the fact they've been selling junk. MWQ can tell you first hand that the quality control of their products was basically if it starts, it's good.

 

Or if it survived the elevator drop. LOL

 

I guess you don't recall the early Japanse transistor radios with cheap switches and poor quality plastics. The Mazda rotary engines that were famous for ingesting themselves. How quickly a Datsun automobile rusted. In that era, Japan was famous for poorly copying American tech.

There are reasons why it took thirty years of competition and learning by the Japanese before brands like Lexus, Accura and Infiniti were viable entries in the automobile market. It took that long for Japan to undo early (and very real) mistakes, overcome marketplace perceptions, and figure out how to package quality for the American marketplace.

In the 1960s, if you told a middle aged American male who drove a Cadillac or a Lincoln that, some day, both of those brands would be inferior products to a Japanese import luxury automobile, the conversation would have contained quite a bit of hysterical laughter, and much of the same phraseology you guys are trotting out now.

History is instructive.

 

Very. Wasn't it Chrysler in the mid 70's that had a huge recall because the vehicles were rusting from the surface? I do seem to remember a friend getting that recall back.

Ford Pinto? Yeah, quality is job one.

I had an RX2. Biggest issue was the starter. Funny how it would outrun most V6 cars made here.

Those cars back then were made cheaply, not poorly. That's the way they were designed. You remember the oil embargo? All of a sudden those cheap made cars were popular. Not because they were luxurious, but because they were good on gas. And hey, they do seem to hold up well.

So going by what you're saying, everyone back then could afford a Cadillac or a Lincoln. We were about as middle class as you could get. 50 years later and we've still never had a Caddy or Lincoln in the driveway. But we knew what was junk and what wasn't.