Well, I managed to put about 120 miles on the new 'Claws over the last week and a half or so. As expected, it rained a lot, and even snowed like crazy on 3 different days. As a result, the mud was thick clay, deep and very greasy. The 'Claws performed nothing short of awesome the entire trip. My only complaint is that way up in the high country, I did get into some really rocky terrain, and consequently managed to take a few small chunks out of the huge lugged tread on the Tri-Claws. Nothing serious, only about the size of a dime or nickel, but still sad to see on brand new tires-but hey, they weren't designed for rock, so that was my own fault.

It only snowed a few inches down low, so that wasn't a very fair comparison. Up high, we had over a foot in some places, and here, they were great. Left a huge foot print, and plowed right through everything I put in front of them. Even dragging skid plate, they still pulled through, where my dad's stock 'Cat wouldn't go. I broke the trail everywhere, but had the stock 'Cat try climbing a few hills in the deep stuff, and with it high centered, it just wouldn't get traction. After I broke through with the 'Claws-effortlessly to say the least-it was able to follow.

The mud was awesome. I was a little worried at first, as the tread seems to "pull" you into the ruts and deep stuff. I got a little worried the first time it happened, as the hole I "fell" into was nearly up to the seat. Being nervous, I gave it more gas, and the thing just jumped forward, launched up and out of the hole like nothing.

For a heavy lugged tire, they were very well manored (sp?) on the trails, and awesome on steep hill climbs. I was able to crawl up steep hills without breaking tread, where the stock 'Cat would spin wildly in a few places.

They are a little bumpy at very slow speeds on gravel roads, but over 10 mph, and especially over 20 mph, they are very smooth-surprising in fact. I also stated previously how the steering was incredibly lighter with the Bi-Claws up front, compared to stock so that is an added bonus.

There were between 25-30 atv's of all makes and models up there, so it was really neat to be able to ride with and around all the various machines. I even saw a couple with an AC 500 and her on an AC 300! That was really neat! I was curious to see how the SP 500 and the big Grizz performed. All machines were basically stock, and all on stock tires. There was one part of the main trail up to the high country where nearly everybody that was riding double, had to diss-mount the rear rider to make it across without tipping over. Neither myself, or my partner on my dad's 'Cat felt the need to do so, and we were the only ones who could cross the relatively steep side-hill with riders.

It was interesting to see the Honda's and Kawa's actually have one rear wheel come off the ground in a few places. The SP handled it fine, and the Grizz was a little tippy. None of the machines I saw ever left the main trails or ventured out into the deep stuff. They all just looked in awe and amazement as I plowed through everything I could find-trying to really give the 'Claws a good workout and fair test. It was neat to be waved down by so many people to ask "who makes that machine, and where did you get those tires???"

I even got to haul out half a spike, and tow a 450 with the other half at the same time. They had an elk down, and halved it to get it out. As I gave them a hand, we each had two riders, and half an elk on our machines. The 450 got high centered, and stuck in some rather deep mud and snow. I was more than willing-and happy at that!-to pull the guy out. He was equally impressed, and thrilled that I was there helping, so it was a really awesome, and gratifying experience. We both had a great time helping each other down the mountain. I even got to pull out a Willyz Jeep! My partner got VERY stuck in a really deep bog, mud and water coming up over the passenger side cut-out, cross wise in some ruts. That one required winching, but when he got high centered in some other ruts further up the trail, I was able to tow him out in low range. That was cool, and I am now able to add the infamous Jeep to my list of "recoveries".

All in all, I would highly recommend these tires to anyone who will do a lot of trail/mud riding or breaking their own trails over various terrain. If mostly hardpack ground, or rocks is your main terrain, then these tires are not your best choice. They perform awesome in the deep and sloppy, great at hill climbs and trail riding, and an all out impressive tire combination.

I took the disposable in to the developing place this morning, so I should have them by the end of the week. Will post the pics as soon as I get them. I also tried to have my partner take as many 3-wheeled shots as I could get, with one front in the air while climbing hills, or coming out of mud holes, so it will be interesting to see how good a camera man he was. Hope they turn out well.

Sorry for the EXTREME length with this one, but thought a few of you might be interested.

Mike

 

Cowboy:
Loved your story. I have 'Claws on my Polaris and have had the same experiences. They are awsome tires! In fact, they get so much traction that the belt is now the weakest link. Sometimes I've burned the belt because it will slip before the tires do. I'm now cosidering the new AC 500 (manual) myself, and would like to put 'Claws on it, but not sure of the size. What size tires are you running, and did you have to do any modifications like spacers or lift kit to fit them? Did they affect the power and gearing much?
Any tips you can give me on this would be a big help. Thanks.

 

YukonRon:
Hey, thanks-glad you enjoyed it, it sure was a blast. As for the 'Claws, I'm running 27x9.75x12 Bi-Claws up front, with 27x12x12 Tri-Claws in the rear. They will fit stock on the machine, with no modifications at all. I did have a problem with a sagging front end, due to the extra weight I carry up front, and thanks to the help of Trailboss, I installed a set of 3/8" home-made spacers under the spring, where it meets the base plate. I then swapped the 3/8" for a 1/2", and put the 3/8" in the rear. This really helped to stabilize the machine, and makes it "feel" more aggressive, I guess you could say.

Well, that's not exactly a good choice of words, it really keeps the machine from leaning at all in hard corners, or even on side hills. I found out during elk camp, that I am now able to run steeper side hills than I could before, feeling more stable, with not near the tipsy feeling it had before. I must say, the 1/2" up front is too much, and I will pull them out and cut them down to 3/8". I experienced about an 1 1/2" gain in ground clearance by adding the 3/8", and no increase at all by jumping to the 1/2", so for pure ride comfort, I'll go back to the 3/8" up front, and keep the 3/8" in the rear. Really makes it feel like a much more stable, solid machine.

Why did I bother telling you all that? Well, with the 27x12x12 'Claws in the rear, they will rub on the stock muffler heat shield thing in steep off-camber situations, but only slightly. By installing the 3/8" spacer between the spring and the base plate, you will not have that problem at all. The spacers also allow you to carry a lot more weight without sagging the machine, and loosing ground clearance. -Just a tip if you pack much gear.

As for power/gearing loss, I run the Auto, so I'm sure it will experience more of a power drain than the manual would-as I don't have a gear selection. I was really worried about it at first, but thanks to several of the guys on here-Andy, Boner, DreyMac, etc.-I took their advice and sacked up, got the 'Claws. Couldn't be more happy. There is a slight noticeable power loss in HIGH range, on an uphill grade. It does take a little longer to get up to speed, but once at top speed, even with the weight I carry, I am now able to easily keep up with my Dad's stock 'Cat, and even gain a little on it, while neck and neck. Granted, he gets to speed a lot quicker than I do, but once I'm there, all is good. The ride is very smooth as well at speeds greater than 20 mph. One thing though, my speedometer is off now. I'm not sure if it is actually more accurate now, as I've heard they read a little faster than actual speed while stock, or what, but it now reads slower than stock. I don't have a GPS yet, so I can't say for sure what the actual speed is.

In LOW range, I can't tell any difference at all. I even hooked up to a huge log while up at elk camp just to see if I could still pull stuff, and it was as if nothing had changed. Still pulled that s.o.b like it wasn't even there. Even with that half an elk on the back, and towing the 450 with the other half, each machine with two riders (driver/passenger) it still pulled the stuck machine up and out of the ditch thing with ease.

One word of caution though-Don't try to do donuts from an accelerated rate of speed! I wasn't even thinking, and while running back to my partner and our two passengers, I thought I'd quickly run up to them, then spin the rear end around in a 180, head right back. Well, as I went into the corner, those 'Claws grabbed the trail, and the 'Cat about flipped over! I had BOTH left side tires over 1' off the ground, had to put my foot down to keep it from going over. Granted, they all thought it was pretty funny to see that big 'Cat try to roll over and scratch it's back with me on it, but I didn't find it that amuzing at the time.

I think the only bad thing I could say is that they don't agree with really rocky terrain that well. I crawled through a bunch of rocky stuff way up in the high country, and now have a few small pieces missing out of the heavy lugged Tri's. Nothing serious, and it was my fault, they're not designed for rock, but it is something to consider if you ride much of it. They're great for everything else though! Best part is the gain in ground clearance. With the 'Claws, and 3/8" spacers, I gained 3.5" of clearance at the skid plate, and 3" at the bottom of the rear diff.

Only thing I could guess about the manual is you might have to drop a gear on the hills. That's just a guess though, Andy, Boner or DreyMac could tell you for sure, as they all run 27" 'Claws on Manual 'Cats. I think Boners got the Tri-Claws all the way around, so he should be theoretically experiencing the most power loss, as the Tri-Claws are wider, and heavier then the narrower Bi-Claws. Just a thought though.

Well, hope that helped a bit. If you have any other questions or concerns, don't hesitate to ask. I think I've covered everything I can think of, so if I forgot something, it is probably relatively short, and wouldn't require this lengthy of a post-hopefully! Heh Heh Heh. If you haven't noticed by now, I tend to speak my mind probably more than I should!

Take care and good luck,

Mike

 

Yes, I do have Tri-Claws all the way around and they are mounted on ITP steel silver wheels. I have noticed a BIG decrease in power, But I have only tested them in one place where I have NEVER tested with my stock tires, so I'm not sure. I must say that I don't have trouble turning them AT ALL in low range 1st gear. I did have alittle trouble turning them in waist deep(when I jumped off to push) VERY thick red clay. It strained alot in 2nd gear to turn them so I went to 1st gear and it turned them like crazy.

I TOTALLY recomend the Claws. They ride AMAZINGLY well for such a GREAT mud tire. The wheels on the other hand I don't like. On the 99 models there are no studs. So when you put the wheel against the hub you have to light the holes up then place a bolt threw the wheel to the hub. The Hubs have a small lip that the factory wheels fit on that allows you to rotate the wheel to line up the holes with out holding ALL of the weight when changing the tires. The ITP wheels have a bigger hole and are not half as easy to mount. ON 2000 and new models this is not a problem since the wheel simply slides on the lugs, but on a 99 and older model it's a b!tch to mount.

I gotta say somthing good for the ITP wheels tho, VERY VERY tough.

 

As far as power loss goes, yes there is some. It makes sense. I think the larger diameter that it has to turn has as much to do with it as the weight does though. More of a pull. As far as the ITP steel wheels, I haven't seen any difference between them and stock wheels as far as power loss goes. They are offset just a bit more than stock wheels so if nothing else, it gives the quad a hair more stability.

My GPS top speed with Claws was around 52mph. Several tests, all on flat pavement.

 

Well Andy, I know the rears have a wider offset than the factory wheels, but to me the fronts seem to have the same offset if not more of a narrower offset than the factory wheels. When I mounted JUST MY FRONT WHEELS I noticed I had less clearance between the shocks and the wheel than with the factory wheels.

 

BONER,

I noticed that the front ITP Silver Steel wheels I got with by Bi-Claws seemed to have a wider offset than the stock silver wheels on the 2000 AC. After installing the HL lift kit there was a slight rub with the stock Titan 489s against the lower bracket of the kit. The Bi-Claws do not rub at all. I looked very closely but did not measure and there seems to be about 1/2" difference between the ITP and Stock wheels.

As for power loss I'd have to agree that it is noticeable. I've never had to use the low gear range on the manual but will to see what kind of difference it makes. Now that I have a GPS I will also check the top end. I've noticed that the speedometer is off by about 5 mph with the claws compared to the stock Titans.

 

Thanks guys, you've been most helpful. I'll have to look into the spacer thing, Cowboy, if I do get the Cat. Still waiting for some more definitive answers on the front diff thing though.
I checked out some of your pics and you guys have some good ones posted. I wasn't brave enough to take my new digital video/still camera hunting yet, but maybe I can still get some pics and post them. We are in snow here now and everything is frozen solid, so no more mud for this year
Oh well, the claws are great in the snow too!

 

The AC speedometers for the most part are full of crap. Those hitting 60 may want to do a gps test. Then again maybe not. Its kind of humiliating to see that you aren't going that fast after all.

Stock 454 gps speed was about 51 at best. Speedometer was showing 59mph at the time.

AC500 with Claws showed a GPS reading of 52 every now and then hitting 53, but not often at all. Speedometer was around 54 this time. The bigger tires will make your speedometer read closer to the real thing, because the two AC's I have ridden have had very optimistic speedometers on them.

All my GPS tests were always done on level pavement over a couple miles or so. I tried to make them as accurate as I could.

With ITP wheels, you should have a 1/4 inch more on each side anyway because they are wider. I don't notice any flaw in the offset of the fronts though. They seem close to the same. The rears are indeed more offset. You can tell that by looking at where the disc sits in relation to the edge of the wheel.

 

Could the combination of wider wheel and narrower tire be enought to have less tire buldge that it could overcome a narrower offset? I think so, but untill we call ITP up or measure the backspaceing ourselves, I think will disagree untill then.