Hi my 85 350X has a small crack where the cylinder mounts to the case, someone has previously tried to braze it but it didnt work, it still run great just seeps a small ammount of oil. i bought a cylinder with a sleeve off of ebay for a good price and i would like to use the sleeve that is currently in my trike because the one i bought has some damage and i dont wanna change rings. so im wondering how hard it is to press the sleeve out of the cylinder in my trick and just exchange the cracked cylinder for the one i bought and reuse my current sleeve. i feel dumb asking this i am a Cummins certified diesel mechanic and i dont know my way around these little things like i do the large diesels. any help would be much apprectiated.

 

nothing??? please any help would be great

 

with a 2cycle the cylinder sleeve has to be bored most of the way out and then they heat the cylinder and freeze the sleeve and only then can the new sleeve be pressed in. i don't think 2or 4cycle sleeves can be removed without being destroyed.

 

i dont know i guess, looks to me like they can be pressed out but im not sure, i think ill probably just end up taking it to a honda shop and have them do it. ill prob end up paying my life savings to have them do it but o well i guess. thanks

adam

 

Your best bet would be to have the jug you bought bored out and step up your piston size. That would be the least expensive way to do it. Those sleeves are not pressed in they are sweated in. The replacement is just about what the other guy said,you would destroy the sleeve trying to remove it.

 

i dont mean to be stubborn here but i think you guys are wrong, i took the jug i bought off of ebay to the bench the other day put a piece of carpet on the bench and carefully tried to beat the sleeve out and without really trying hard i was easily bringing the sleeve out, i stopped because i dont wanna take it out yet but i think they are driven in and driven out i think you guys may be getting confused with the 250r or any 2 stroke sleeve. like i said im not trying to put you guys down, or start a forum wide argument, i appreciate the insite and would love to see more on this particular topic, because im not sure if im completely right. Thanks guys


Hazard

 

Hey, No problem man. I am not certain about it , I am an auto tech and I have never tried resleeving a 350x before I have done a couple of 2 strokes. I hope it is that easy , then I'll know for my own should I ever need to. So keep us posted and let us all know how it works for you, Good Luck.

 

Is this an 1985 HONDA ATC350X
Then It is safe to sat it is a 4 stroke!
Details are important if you want an good assessment or a solution...

Hey, there is a simple & cool way, forgive the pun, of doing a resleeve. This is a 5 min job as long as you have walked thru the steps in your mind. There is a science term for this! Linear Expansion of materials
Aluminum expands faster than Steel. Shrinks the same way too.

On a solid bench, Place the cylinder jug headside down and block it up in a fashion so that the cylinder sleeve will clear the Aluminum jug when it is falls out... No obstruction in it's path.
Freeze the sleeve with DRY ICE.. It will shrink according to its material expansion factor with respect to colder temperature. WARNING DRY ICE will burn your skin so use thermo protection!
Use your imagination on how to retain the dry ice inside the sleeve, a piece of foam insulation, jam it in so it will hold the dry ice in place and permit the dryice to touch 95% the sleeve walls, the trailing end especially.
You may not need to... But you can also add heat, Warm the outer part... aluminum jug with a propane torch do it on all sides keep it rotating.
The sleeve may need a little help.. not very much to get it moving.

If you can not get dry ice well you have to be quick with this one...
Put the jug in deep freeze overnight.. Have your setup as I discribed ready to be used... when the jug is removed from the freezer you have to work fast. Using the propane torch warm the outer part of the aluminum jug but remember that the heat will transfer to the sleeve quickly and the window of opportunity is very short to get that sleeve moving.

Reverse the process to install other sleeve.
There may be variable characteristics on these parts that may have a very slight difference.
When the swap is completed and all the material temperatures come to rest tolerances may change ever so slightly.

Remember the outer jug relative to the sleeve will be similar to an elastic band wraped around a cylindrical balloon.
Mechanically disturbing these parts will change some things but ever so slightly.

Make sure that there is a 0.005 to 0.010 of an inch gap between the walls of the cylinder and the piston with respect to the front or back of the piston, perpendicular to the piston pin!
All the more reason that you will need to remove the old rings!

I am assuming that there is over 25000 miles on it and never was ripped down this far!

Keep this in mind if you plan on cutting a corner here or there.
One will kick them self on the flip side 90% of the time by cutting corners.

Rings??? At this point of a dismantled engine...
I would always change the rings and hone the cylinder..Due to the previous wear. The Laws of Murphy will prevail !
You will never line up the rings in to position they were in before you removed the jug. The ring edges are not square to the face of the ring anymore!

You're there, why not do it half way in the positive direction. It is to your benifit!

Hone the cylinder so there is no shin when viewing it up to the light.
Installing the rings there are a few reminders...
Naturally you can see there are 3 different rings .

The suface on oneside of these rings will have a dot or a "T" etched near the gap. That faces up with respect to the top of the piston. Double check the gap one at a time by inserting the ring into the cylinder and square it off use a feeler gage and check the gap I think it is 0.011 to 0.015 of an inch, MM equiv is 25.4 times the # in inches, get the specs I am not sure on these new machines!
Yea Yea I am a 60's Honda mechanic! They did not change much!

Bottom ring is the oil ring and may be made of 3 different components or it may be one solid component with slotted holes.

Center ring Is the wiper there is a beveled edge on it and use to be a dull chrome finish on the edge.

Top ring is the compression ring and as I remember it was a shinny chrome edge.

Once you made sure the tolerances are in the ball park swap them out with the old rings. I use to snap the old rings in half and use to scrape any carbon buildup in the piston groves by running it around the respective grove as it would fit as if it were installed.
Use common sence not to drop any debris into the crank case. Stuff clean rags around the crank shaft and crank case opening.

One Last thing I will mention, after you have installed the rings and did the lube and installed the Cylinder back over the piston you may find you forgot to put the lower gasket back on before hand! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]


Like I said if you are cutting corners beware, cut to many and it will come around 360.
Should of, Could of, Didn't! OH CRAP, smoken Joe-ho-sa-fats, it burns oil???!


When the steel sleeve is removed, the cracked aluminum jug can be repaired, a good Oxo-Acetalene Welder can melt a bond and build up the area where the crack is located on aluminum jug but you will need a machinist to make it all fit correctly. Boring of the stud hole is easy but the machine surface where the jug mates to the crank case needs to have a very good flat squared finish and the inside bore of the jug, where the sleeve fits in the jug, if it is close to the bottom it can be tolerated.
.

 

Very good description of sweating in a sleeve. One other thing I would like to add, just a bit of common sense, If this is a project trike and you are planning to keep it then it is worth buying the shop manual. I don't mean the Clymer manual I mean the real "Honda" shop manual the one the techs use in the shop. You can pick one up for about $30 , Just go to the parts counter at your local honda dealer and order it. It is a good idea because it gives the proper procedures and good illustrations with the tolerances for 'everything'.The problem with the clymer manuals I have found is that they tend to leave out things and steps, sometimes very important information, so you are better served getting the actual 'Shop' manual.good luck and happy building.

 

Best Idea I heard since I started reading all these threads.

Clymer Chilton use to be a very good info book going way back into the 50's and 60's when the dealers told the customer that that info was not available to the public.
Like you said below "there is nothing like the real thing!"


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Very good description of sweating in a sleeve. One other thing I would like to add, just a bit of common sense, If this is a project trike and you are planning to keep it then it is worth buying the shop manual. I don't mean the Clymer manual I mean the real "Honda" shop manual the one the techs use in the shop. You can pick one up for about $30 , Just go to the parts counter at your local honda dealer and order it. It is a good idea because it gives the proper procedures and good illustrations with the tolerances for 'everything'.The problem with the clymer manuals I have found is that they tend to leave out things and steps, sometimes very important information, so you are better served getting the actual 'Shop' manual.good luck and happy building.