NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
#51
02-07-2008 | 03:09 PM
Supersock
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From: Land of the misfit toys
NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
What if the smartest guy in the world chooses to ride w/o a helmet? Is it smart? Is it stupid? Is it any of our business???</end quote></div>
Probably wouldn't be any of mine, but it may be for the guy that marries his widow. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
What if the smartest guy in the world chooses to ride w/o a helmet? Is it smart? Is it stupid? Is it any of our business???</end quote></div>
Probably wouldn't be any of mine, but it may be for the guy that marries his widow. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
#52
02-07-2008 | 03:12 PM
KTM Patrol
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Former Chinese POW!
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Hat Creek, Ca
NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety.
</end quote></div>
Are you old enough to remember 3 wheelers (ATC's)?
Exactly what you are doing is the reason ATC's are gone. Quads most definitely could be next.
I cant wait to see the 6 wheel even safer atv they have to come up with next. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety.
</end quote></div>
Are you old enough to remember 3 wheelers (ATC's)?
Exactly what you are doing is the reason ATC's are gone. Quads most definitely could be next.
I cant wait to see the 6 wheel even safer atv they have to come up with next. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
#53
02-07-2008 | 03:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
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NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: cynick
You may "manage the risks" on your own but if something happens to you, you hurt us all. If you were to get in an accident on your wheeler and get killed then the more restriction we get and more regulations and the more leverage they have. You sometimes have to think of more than just yourself. I agree it is up to you and your life but you are hurting more than just yourself.
Riding double I think is a little different as long as you are responsible with it. But if you are stupid about it than don't do it.</end quote></div>
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety.
Who is "they" that you mentioned? The same group that thinks its stupid to ride w/o a helmet? Aren't "they" arguing with me now? If "they" are, then just tell "them" not to use my death as leverage to do whatever it is they are trying to do. Its an attitude shift the population needs. Live n let live and vote down goofy laws that restrict our sport. And instead, start an atv school where you can educate people if you feel so strongly about "public safety". Take up donations from others that feel the same to finance the school.
Seems this thread has gotten some momentum, but I'll be gone for a little while, have to run into town without my seatbelt, LOL. I'll be back later.... But if I get into an accident and die, maybe they won't put too many restrictions on your car driving experience. [img][/img]</end quote></div>
They are everyone that wants riding area's shut down, or anyone that feels that we shouldn't be able to ride on trails or Dunes or any where. If accidents and death happen that gives anyone who is opposed to our sport leverage. You have your opinion and I have mine. We are all allowed that but when someone gets hurt or killed it hurts us all. Whether you think it does or not.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: cynick
You may "manage the risks" on your own but if something happens to you, you hurt us all. If you were to get in an accident on your wheeler and get killed then the more restriction we get and more regulations and the more leverage they have. You sometimes have to think of more than just yourself. I agree it is up to you and your life but you are hurting more than just yourself.
Riding double I think is a little different as long as you are responsible with it. But if you are stupid about it than don't do it.</end quote></div>
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety.
Who is "they" that you mentioned? The same group that thinks its stupid to ride w/o a helmet? Aren't "they" arguing with me now? If "they" are, then just tell "them" not to use my death as leverage to do whatever it is they are trying to do. Its an attitude shift the population needs. Live n let live and vote down goofy laws that restrict our sport. And instead, start an atv school where you can educate people if you feel so strongly about "public safety". Take up donations from others that feel the same to finance the school.
Seems this thread has gotten some momentum, but I'll be gone for a little while, have to run into town without my seatbelt, LOL. I'll be back later.... But if I get into an accident and die, maybe they won't put too many restrictions on your car driving experience. [img][/img]</end quote></div>
They are everyone that wants riding area's shut down, or anyone that feels that we shouldn't be able to ride on trails or Dunes or any where. If accidents and death happen that gives anyone who is opposed to our sport leverage. You have your opinion and I have mine. We are all allowed that but when someone gets hurt or killed it hurts us all. Whether you think it does or not.
#54
02-07-2008 | 03:17 PM
Supersock
Hired Gun!
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Hired Gun!
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Land of the misfit toys
NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety. </end quote></div>
How about insurance? How about the hospital costs that aren't paid being passed on to me? I may be having surgery in the next month that has nothing to do with riding. But you can bet the cost of many unpaid bills will be factored into my payments.
But I guess it's ok to impose that cost to me, because it wasn't done in the name of safety.
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety. </end quote></div>
How about insurance? How about the hospital costs that aren't paid being passed on to me? I may be having surgery in the next month that has nothing to do with riding. But you can bet the cost of many unpaid bills will be factored into my payments.
But I guess it's ok to impose that cost to me, because it wasn't done in the name of safety.
#55
02-07-2008 | 03:35 PM
KTM Patrol
Former Chinese POW!
Former Chinese POW!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 75,585
Likes: 52
From: Hat Creek, Ca
NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Seems this thread has gotten some momentum, but I'll be gone for a little while, have to run into town without my seatbelt, LOL. I'll be back later....
But if I get into an accident and die, maybe they won't put too many restrictions on your car driving experience.</end quote></div>
Good luck with that. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Maybe they will just add another air bag somewhere. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Seems this thread has gotten some momentum, but I'll be gone for a little while, have to run into town without my seatbelt, LOL. I'll be back later....
But if I get into an accident and die, maybe they won't put too many restrictions on your car driving experience.</end quote></div>
Good luck with that. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
Maybe they will just add another air bag somewhere. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
#56
02-07-2008 | 03:48 PM
Quad Patrol
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,213
Likes: 0
NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Scootergptx
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety. </end quote></div>
How about insurance? How about the hospital costs that aren't paid being passed on to me? I may be having surgery in the next month that has nothing to do with riding. But you can bet the cost of many unpaid bills will be factored into my payments.
But I guess it's ok to impose that cost to me, because it wasn't done in the name of safety.</end quote></div>
That's exactly the argument that was used in California to pass both the seatbelt law and helmet laws in this state and I would venture to guess other states. When someone can not pay for the injuries they received, the buck gets passed to the taxpayer. And if they are a quadriplegic, now we pay for their care for the rest of their lives.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety. </end quote></div>
How about insurance? How about the hospital costs that aren't paid being passed on to me? I may be having surgery in the next month that has nothing to do with riding. But you can bet the cost of many unpaid bills will be factored into my payments.
But I guess it's ok to impose that cost to me, because it wasn't done in the name of safety.</end quote></div>
That's exactly the argument that was used in California to pass both the seatbelt law and helmet laws in this state and I would venture to guess other states. When someone can not pay for the injuries they received, the buck gets passed to the taxpayer. And if they are a quadriplegic, now we pay for their care for the rest of their lives.
#57
02-07-2008 | 08:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
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NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: mywifesquad
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Riding atv's is risky even with all the protective gear.
Is it smart to take the risk?</end quote></div>
Less risky with all the protective gear..correct?
Probably not but it sure is fun! [img][/img]
I have always been a "dress for the crash, not the ride". kinda guy since a very bad crash I had in my early 20's. At 47 I wouldnt even consider getting on my KTM without gear. That risk isnt worth it to me.</end quote></div>
Good call. You know your limits. That's why I decided to hang up roofing. I'm getting older and I know its just a matter of time before I take a big crash off a roof. I've been really lucky for 10yrs. I've nailed my fingers with an airgun twice, countless razor blade cuts,,, one requiring 6 staples to hold the wound closed.... But was lucky never to take a dive. Getting older is one of those "risk assessment" variables to consider.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Riding atv's is risky even with all the protective gear.
Is it smart to take the risk?</end quote></div>
Less risky with all the protective gear..correct?
Probably not but it sure is fun! [img][/img]
I have always been a "dress for the crash, not the ride". kinda guy since a very bad crash I had in my early 20's. At 47 I wouldnt even consider getting on my KTM without gear. That risk isnt worth it to me.</end quote></div>
Good call. You know your limits. That's why I decided to hang up roofing. I'm getting older and I know its just a matter of time before I take a big crash off a roof. I've been really lucky for 10yrs. I've nailed my fingers with an airgun twice, countless razor blade cuts,,, one requiring 6 staples to hold the wound closed.... But was lucky never to take a dive. Getting older is one of those "risk assessment" variables to consider.
#58
02-07-2008 | 08:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,227
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NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: mywifesquad
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety.
</end quote></div>
Are you old enough to remember 3 wheelers (ATC's)?
Exactly what you are doing is the reason ATC's are gone. Quads most definitely could be next.
I cant wait to see the 6 wheel even safer atv they have to come up with next. [img][/img][img][/img]</end quote></div>
As far as I understand it, the manufacturers agreed to stop making atcs because 1) quads were selling better. 2) Legal crap. It has never been illegal to make and market an atc to my knowledge. And I think the agreement expired 10yrs ago anyway. So, whats stopping them from making them now? No market for them is what. Its just not at all likely we will ever see quads banned from manufacture or sale in the US in our lifetimes. I'm 35 btw. We may see the states cracking down on riding on public land due to environmental issues, but not safety issues. Here in GA, the state maintains trails just for atv's (including atc's). They routinely remove rocks, logs, and make jumps for tax payers to enjoy. I hardly thing the state will turn around and stop doing that anytime soon. They may start charging admission,,, and then helmet requirements may follow for insurance purposes though. Of course that will also take care of riding double and you may even have to have safety checks and buy stickers before riding. Who knows.... Everybody will just ride somewhere else if it gets too untolerable. You'd be hard pressed to find a homeowned that didn't have a quad stuffed in his garage around here. Too many people to hold back.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety.
</end quote></div>
Are you old enough to remember 3 wheelers (ATC's)?
Exactly what you are doing is the reason ATC's are gone. Quads most definitely could be next.
I cant wait to see the 6 wheel even safer atv they have to come up with next. [img][/img][img][/img]</end quote></div>
As far as I understand it, the manufacturers agreed to stop making atcs because 1) quads were selling better. 2) Legal crap. It has never been illegal to make and market an atc to my knowledge. And I think the agreement expired 10yrs ago anyway. So, whats stopping them from making them now? No market for them is what. Its just not at all likely we will ever see quads banned from manufacture or sale in the US in our lifetimes. I'm 35 btw. We may see the states cracking down on riding on public land due to environmental issues, but not safety issues. Here in GA, the state maintains trails just for atv's (including atc's). They routinely remove rocks, logs, and make jumps for tax payers to enjoy. I hardly thing the state will turn around and stop doing that anytime soon. They may start charging admission,,, and then helmet requirements may follow for insurance purposes though. Of course that will also take care of riding double and you may even have to have safety checks and buy stickers before riding. Who knows.... Everybody will just ride somewhere else if it gets too untolerable. You'd be hard pressed to find a homeowned that didn't have a quad stuffed in his garage around here. Too many people to hold back.
#59
02-07-2008 | 08:32 PM
Elite Pro Rider
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,227
Likes: 0
NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: cynick
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: cynick
You may "manage the risks" on your own but if something happens to you, you hurt us all. If you were to get in an accident on your wheeler and get killed then the more restriction we get and more regulations and the more leverage they have. You sometimes have to think of more than just yourself. I agree it is up to you and your life but you are hurting more than just yourself.
Riding double I think is a little different as long as you are responsible with it. But if you are stupid about it than don't do it.</end quote></div>
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety.
Who is "they" that you mentioned? The same group that thinks its stupid to ride w/o a helmet? Aren't "they" arguing with me now? If "they" are, then just tell "them" not to use my death as leverage to do whatever it is they are trying to do. Its an attitude shift the population needs. Live n let live and vote down goofy laws that restrict our sport. And instead, start an atv school where you can educate people if you feel so strongly about "public safety". Take up donations from others that feel the same to finance the school.
Seems this thread has gotten some momentum, but I'll be gone for a little while, have to run into town without my seatbelt, LOL. I'll be back later.... But if I get into an accident and die, maybe they won't put too many restrictions on your car driving experience. [IMG][/IMG]</end quote></div>
They are everyone that wants riding area's shut down, or anyone that feels that we shouldn't be able to ride on trails or Dunes or any where. If accidents and death happen that gives anyone who is opposed to our sport leverage. You have your opinion and I have mine. We are all allowed that but when someone gets hurt or killed it hurts us all. Whether you think it does or not.</end quote></div>
Well, my opinion is they won't shut down a riding area unless there are a certain percentage of deaths or injuries that deem the place to be some sorta unreasonable hazard. The most likely reason to close a riding area is too many quads riding where they shouldn't be and destroying natural resources. IMO.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: cynick
You may "manage the risks" on your own but if something happens to you, you hurt us all. If you were to get in an accident on your wheeler and get killed then the more restriction we get and more regulations and the more leverage they have. You sometimes have to think of more than just yourself. I agree it is up to you and your life but you are hurting more than just yourself.
Riding double I think is a little different as long as you are responsible with it. But if you are stupid about it than don't do it.</end quote></div>
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety.
Who is "they" that you mentioned? The same group that thinks its stupid to ride w/o a helmet? Aren't "they" arguing with me now? If "they" are, then just tell "them" not to use my death as leverage to do whatever it is they are trying to do. Its an attitude shift the population needs. Live n let live and vote down goofy laws that restrict our sport. And instead, start an atv school where you can educate people if you feel so strongly about "public safety". Take up donations from others that feel the same to finance the school.
Seems this thread has gotten some momentum, but I'll be gone for a little while, have to run into town without my seatbelt, LOL. I'll be back later.... But if I get into an accident and die, maybe they won't put too many restrictions on your car driving experience. [IMG][/IMG]</end quote></div>
They are everyone that wants riding area's shut down, or anyone that feels that we shouldn't be able to ride on trails or Dunes or any where. If accidents and death happen that gives anyone who is opposed to our sport leverage. You have your opinion and I have mine. We are all allowed that but when someone gets hurt or killed it hurts us all. Whether you think it does or not.</end quote></div>
Well, my opinion is they won't shut down a riding area unless there are a certain percentage of deaths or injuries that deem the place to be some sorta unreasonable hazard. The most likely reason to close a riding area is too many quads riding where they shouldn't be and destroying natural resources. IMO.
#60
02-07-2008 | 08:45 PM
Elite Pro Rider
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,227
Likes: 0
NEWBIE question about buying new ATV
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Scootergptx
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety. </end quote></div>
How about insurance? How about the hospital costs that aren't paid being passed on to me? I may be having surgery in the next month that has nothing to do with riding. But you can bet the cost of many unpaid bills will be factored into my payments.
But I guess it's ok to impose that cost to me, because it wasn't done in the name of safety.</end quote></div>
I dont know. Figure something out besides passing laws to limit personal liberty. I'm not a health care reform expert.
1) People who own quads probably have ins or enough money to cover much of a hospital bill. Otherwise, how do they afford $7000 quads? Everybody I know has ins that rides quads. And everybody I know that dont have ins, can't afford a quad.
2) There are not that many accidents on quads to make a drop in the bucket concerning the amount of an ins increase you would get.
3) I'm not saying everyone shoudn't wear a helmet or ride double or whatever, most will still choose the less risky approach even w/o a law.
4) Its the law breakers that will most likely get hurt anyway, so a law wouldn't do much good. It would only inconvenience the law abiding citizens.
5) Most of the health care costs you pay are from illegals and people too poor to afford to ride an atv anyway, much less buy a fancy helmet and riding gear. They would do well to buy the gas for a day's ride.
I think pushing for helmet laws and griping about riding double is barking up the wrong tree as far as your ins costs are concerned.
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: JustRandy
Not true! If I get killed on a quad, how will your life change? What? They gonna make you wear a helmet? LOL, don't you already? They're not going to outlaw quads,,, they bring in too much money. Just like they can't outlaw cars or motorcycles. The root problem is people trying to imposse their will on others in the name of safety. </end quote></div>
How about insurance? How about the hospital costs that aren't paid being passed on to me? I may be having surgery in the next month that has nothing to do with riding. But you can bet the cost of many unpaid bills will be factored into my payments.
But I guess it's ok to impose that cost to me, because it wasn't done in the name of safety.</end quote></div>
I dont know. Figure something out besides passing laws to limit personal liberty. I'm not a health care reform expert.
1) People who own quads probably have ins or enough money to cover much of a hospital bill. Otherwise, how do they afford $7000 quads? Everybody I know has ins that rides quads. And everybody I know that dont have ins, can't afford a quad.
2) There are not that many accidents on quads to make a drop in the bucket concerning the amount of an ins increase you would get.
3) I'm not saying everyone shoudn't wear a helmet or ride double or whatever, most will still choose the less risky approach even w/o a law.
4) Its the law breakers that will most likely get hurt anyway, so a law wouldn't do much good. It would only inconvenience the law abiding citizens.
5) Most of the health care costs you pay are from illegals and people too poor to afford to ride an atv anyway, much less buy a fancy helmet and riding gear. They would do well to buy the gas for a day's ride.
I think pushing for helmet laws and griping about riding double is barking up the wrong tree as far as your ins costs are concerned.