Mr.HP using PAMI stuff?
#41
10-04-2004, 11:08 PM
Mr.HP using PAMI stuff?
Originally posted by: sandbomber
If it was a pami I would be racing the bike right now!!!!!!! He has a custom jug being cast and that is all I will say!!!!!!
If it was a pami I would be racing the bike right now!!!!!!! He has a custom jug being cast and that is all I will say!!!!!!
I don't think he is actually using a Pami Jug on his kits (he already answered that by telling us he doesn't use Pami parts.)
Again, the question is weather the Pami Jug was used as a model for the HP Research casting by simply grinding off where it said Pami and making it your own.
Sandman: I think the Pami is a 105.5mm Bore and pretty sure the height of the jug is the same (doesn't require and cam timing changes.) But, the cylinder skirt may be longer than stock. I know it is thicker than the stocker because the cases need to be bored to fit the Pami jug in. HP Research could have modified that since they are building this kit as a 730 (non-stroke) kit. But, if you stroke without boring the cases you may not have enough material at the bottom of the skirt to support the piston.
#42
10-04-2004, 11:39 PM
Mr.HP using PAMI stuff?
Again, amazed on how civil this conversation really is.
I don't think that the question is whether or not it's PAMI. I think the question is if HP is selling it as his. I don't think he is, and I'm not sure he's claiming anything weird about that particular jug. I just think he should say something more than "NO". Why should Eric say more than that, because he works too damn hard to say anything less. This is the business, and people can ask questions, but answers do more than waste time, they set the record straight and build reputation.
Eric was straight with me, and I called him out pretty hard. The bad part of my ordeal was that we had some outside influences getting involved illegally. Once my questions got answered, it bulstered his business and I continue to talk honestly about the HV. It ROCKED!
Eric, it's unfortunate that you have to go through this, but the return, as always, will be ten-fold. Please be mindful that people in this day and age are just tired of getting the shaft by unscrupulous business practices. Not everyone cares about who is really judging. Hope this is all straightened out in a timely manner.
BigDaddy - OUT!
I don't think that the question is whether or not it's PAMI. I think the question is if HP is selling it as his. I don't think he is, and I'm not sure he's claiming anything weird about that particular jug. I just think he should say something more than "NO". Why should Eric say more than that, because he works too damn hard to say anything less. This is the business, and people can ask questions, but answers do more than waste time, they set the record straight and build reputation.
Eric was straight with me, and I called him out pretty hard. The bad part of my ordeal was that we had some outside influences getting involved illegally. Once my questions got answered, it bulstered his business and I continue to talk honestly about the HV. It ROCKED!
Eric, it's unfortunate that you have to go through this, but the return, as always, will be ten-fold. Please be mindful that people in this day and age are just tired of getting the shaft by unscrupulous business practices. Not everyone cares about who is really judging. Hope this is all straightened out in a timely manner.
BigDaddy - OUT!
#43
10-05-2004, 12:26 AM
Mr.HP using PAMI stuff?
Originally posted by: ds650ratrider
While talking to Eric months ago, he told me he had a couple of test units out there, but still needed to work out a small thermal hot spot on his jug design by routing a tad more fluid to an area, and then he could get his design to casting.
On his rebadging of hardware, my take is quite simple. If I spent a lot of time on the head, cams and intake and exhaust tuning and installed it on a PAMI cylinder, I would grind off the PAMI logo so as not to give them credit for my blood, sweat, tears and dyno time. My intent wouldn't be to try to hide the jug manufacter, but to just not give them credit for the real work that made the bike fast. Either way, using a Pami jug as a starting point for your own design seems like a natural point for any reasonable person.
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While talking to Eric months ago, he told me he had a couple of test units out there, but still needed to work out a small thermal hot spot on his jug design by routing a tad more fluid to an area, and then he could get his design to casting.
On his rebadging of hardware, my take is quite simple. If I spent a lot of time on the head, cams and intake and exhaust tuning and installed it on a PAMI cylinder, I would grind off the PAMI logo so as not to give them credit for my blood, sweat, tears and dyno time. My intent wouldn't be to try to hide the jug manufacter, but to just not give them credit for the real work that made the bike fast. Either way, using a Pami jug as a starting point for your own design seems like a natural point for any reasonable person.
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I'm sorry Bro, I don't get your logic! Pami did the research and development, they deserve the credit (in your example!) If you have the Pami Jug (again, in your example) why don't they deserve credit? The whole kit doesn't have to come from them for them to get the credit they deserve.
Its really simple, if it is someone elses technology / research (regardless of the product) you as a consumer can take the name / sticker / etc. off but NOT as someone selling the parts.
Seems to me there is a lot of confusion about what is right and what is wrong. . .
If Suz and Kawa enter into an agreement to market eachother's quads under the other's name that is fine. (I've got to think this is a similar explanation to Demon's carpet thing.)
If Chevy puts a Powerstroke Diesel in their truck (changes the name on the valve cover) and markets it as their own it is NOT fine.
#44
10-05-2004, 12:26 AM
Mr.HP using PAMI stuff?
>>the question is weather the Pami Jug was used as a model for the HP Research
It would be hard to say it wasn't. Why it uses a round piston, fits a ds650, measures 105mm, and has nikisil coating. How many other similarities would need drawn to fulfill the conspiracy theory? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
From what I understood the test units were very limited distribution and for pre-production testing, and Capewindys jug sounds like it could fit that category.
Did Capewindy say he bought that jug as a HPR homegrown unit or as a pre-production test unit? My understanding was HPR had *NOT* cast their jug design as of yet. Anybody know more info? When somebody finally takes possession of said jug, the answer will be crystal clear.
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It would be hard to say it wasn't. Why it uses a round piston, fits a ds650, measures 105mm, and has nikisil coating. How many other similarities would need drawn to fulfill the conspiracy theory? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
From what I understood the test units were very limited distribution and for pre-production testing, and Capewindys jug sounds like it could fit that category.
Did Capewindy say he bought that jug as a HPR homegrown unit or as a pre-production test unit? My understanding was HPR had *NOT* cast their jug design as of yet. Anybody know more info? When somebody finally takes possession of said jug, the answer will be crystal clear.
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#45
10-05-2004, 12:36 AM
Mr.HP using PAMI stuff?
I just think that everyone ( I do mean EVERYONE) is way too judgmental and we need to get back on the topic of what is legal or not. Look, we are not the first guys in american history to have this problem; That's why we have the law we do now.
If folks want to draw a conclusion on what is right and wrong then fine, but they better be willing to live by it or it will be a problem later. That goes with just about anything in life.
If folks want to draw a conclusion on what is right and wrong then fine, but they better be willing to live by it or it will be a problem later. That goes with just about anything in life.
#46
10-05-2004, 01:34 AM
Mr.HP using PAMI stuff?
>>we need to get back on the topic of what is legal or not.
I'll take morally correct over legally correct any day as many folks skirt the legal line everyday for financial gain.
They maybe right, but I wouldn't take their righteousness over my moral convictions.
Seeing Erics final product will answer the path he chose. Gee, now the anticipation is kind of cool. But after several long conversations with Eric, I want to believe I know which way he's going. TAKE THE GREEN PILLL!!!!!
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I'll take morally correct over legally correct any day as many folks skirt the legal line everyday for financial gain.
They maybe right, but I wouldn't take their righteousness over my moral convictions.
Seeing Erics final product will answer the path he chose. Gee, now the anticipation is kind of cool. But after several long conversations with Eric, I want to believe I know which way he's going. TAKE THE GREEN PILLL!!!!!
--
#47
10-05-2004, 07:49 AM
#48
10-05-2004, 10:37 AM
#49
10-05-2004, 01:44 PM
Mr.HP using PAMI stuff?
Originally posted by: DSXBEAR
I know a little acid will bring back the casting. Rub a little on with some steel wool and the casting should come back. Doesnt matter how much was ground off. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
I know a little acid will bring back the casting. Rub a little on with some steel wool and the casting should come back. Doesnt matter how much was ground off. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
#50
10-05-2004, 08:04 PM
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