Boss noss NOS
Mar 30, 2006 | 08:50 PM
#21
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Boss noss NOS
Originally posted by: raptorgav
Thanks for the replies fellas, from what I understand the boss noss is the one to buy at this point, does everyone agree? Is it as simple as bolt on and go ? and I am still on the stock clutch and springs so I will need to upgrade?. I will need shipping to australia, should I deal with ondunes for the nos kit and clutch springs or is there other alternatives? I did see the boss noss kits cheaper on a previous post but had not heard of the company. I am thinking to go with the 20 shot, and how long will the smaller nos cylinder last? or is the larger cylinder a better option?
Gav
Thanks for the replies fellas, from what I understand the boss noss is the one to buy at this point, does everyone agree? Is it as simple as bolt on and go ? and I am still on the stock clutch and springs so I will need to upgrade?. I will need shipping to australia, should I deal with ondunes for the nos kit and clutch springs or is there other alternatives? I did see the boss noss kits cheaper on a previous post but had not heard of the company. I am thinking to go with the 20 shot, and how long will the smaller nos cylinder last? or is the larger cylinder a better option?
Gav
raptorgav,
Its pretty much bolt on, but you do have to drill your gas tank in order to run another gas line to supply the added fuel with the BOSS fuel dumps. As with all nitrous kits, you will want to think about your bottle position. The Boss kits come with a universal bottle mount, but you may want to fabricate something else on your own depending on your needs. The 2.5lb aluminum bottle is really the best overall choice. Aluminum is much less expensive and 2.5lbs is a nice size to have. A 2.5lb bottle will last a total of about 160 seconds with a 25hp shot.
Mar 31, 2006 | 12:26 AM
#22
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Boss noss NOS
Originally posted by: OregonDunePatrol
Historically, you will never see a carburetor company give you advice on how to jet a carburetor. The reason why you wont is because the dealers that sold them the cam, exhaust and other high flow mods, not only understand his mods, but his motor and elevation as well. Dealers are responsible for jetting, not the carburetor manufacturer.
Likewise, you will never see a Nitrous company give advice on how much horsepower to run on a certain set of modifications. Approved BOSS dealers do best when they either stick to the 15HP that are given with the kit, or make educated decisions based on the motor builder’s experience. As said before, in my humble opinion, the stock motor can go somewhere between 20HP and 25HP with the BOSS kit. However, change the piston and you can go higher. Which piston you choose, and how much heat it can take, will depend on your piston manufacturer, not your NOSS equipment provider.
This is not any different than other parts that are made by the TOP end performance manufacturers. Builders have to make the judgment call as to how much horsepower their motor, that they built, will take. No N20 company will do that for you. Builders that gain this knowledge by trial and error will have the most to gain, because that knowledge is worth it to many of their customers. This type of testing is done extensively by the best builders in the business - For example Horsepower Research. Have you ever seen a company do so much testing in your life? This is why they are so successful.
Another one is On-Dunes Performance for example. On-Dunes goes out to the dunes, has a new motor, chassis and nitrous system to test. They bring the engine manufacturer in and also bring in BOSS that provides the nitrous system for a full test. All companies have much to gain from the test. However, the cost of the time, gas, motel and travel expenses can be huge. In the end, who holds the knowledge? On Dunes! I fully support dealers that are willing to test all products in order to support their customers – after all, they are the ones that truly benefit.
Often I get people that call me up and try and pin me down to how much nitrous a particular motor will take. They begin by listing about 10-15 motor mods, and then ask the big question. I suppose it would be easy to throw out some numbers, but the fact is, there are way too many varieties of parts in the power train for all the different quads to come up with some factor that will spit out for them the numbers they want. Experience is key. By dealers understanding one brand of piston, one brand of crank and one brand of big bore kit, they then can have the knowledge needed to give their customers the successful build they need, with and without NOSS.
While BOSS stands behind its products for 2 full years, the success of the entire build is always with the builder.
Believe it! IMHO, Its simply builder 101
Originally posted by: DSNUT
Is that a "Yes" you will help me understand Noss or a "No" you will not?
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Originally posted by: OregonDunePatrol
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Historically, you will never see a carburetor company give you advice on how to jet a carburetor. The reason why you wont is because the dealers that sold them the cam, exhaust and other high flow mods, not only understand his mods, but his motor and elevation as well. Dealers are responsible for jetting, not the carburetor manufacturer.
Likewise, you will never see a Nitrous company give advice on how much horsepower to run on a certain set of modifications. Approved BOSS dealers do best when they either stick to the 15HP that are given with the kit, or make educated decisions based on the motor builder’s experience. As said before, in my humble opinion, the stock motor can go somewhere between 20HP and 25HP with the BOSS kit. However, change the piston and you can go higher. Which piston you choose, and how much heat it can take, will depend on your piston manufacturer, not your NOSS equipment provider.
This is not any different than other parts that are made by the TOP end performance manufacturers. Builders have to make the judgment call as to how much horsepower their motor, that they built, will take. No N20 company will do that for you. Builders that gain this knowledge by trial and error will have the most to gain, because that knowledge is worth it to many of their customers. This type of testing is done extensively by the best builders in the business - For example Horsepower Research. Have you ever seen a company do so much testing in your life? This is why they are so successful.
Another one is On-Dunes Performance for example. On-Dunes goes out to the dunes, has a new motor, chassis and nitrous system to test. They bring the engine manufacturer in and also bring in BOSS that provides the nitrous system for a full test. All companies have much to gain from the test. However, the cost of the time, gas, motel and travel expenses can be huge. In the end, who holds the knowledge? On Dunes! I fully support dealers that are willing to test all products in order to support their customers – after all, they are the ones that truly benefit.
Often I get people that call me up and try and pin me down to how much nitrous a particular motor will take. They begin by listing about 10-15 motor mods, and then ask the big question. I suppose it would be easy to throw out some numbers, but the fact is, there are way too many varieties of parts in the power train for all the different quads to come up with some factor that will spit out for them the numbers they want. Experience is key. By dealers understanding one brand of piston, one brand of crank and one brand of big bore kit, they then can have the knowledge needed to give their customers the successful build they need, with and without NOSS.
While BOSS stands behind its products for 2 full years, the success of the entire build is always with the builder.
Believe it! IMHO, Its simply builder 101
Mar 31, 2006 | 10:21 AM
#23
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Boss noss NOS
Originally posted by: DSNUT
No it isn't. It's CYA 101......IMHO.. Thanks anyway.
Originally posted by: OregonDunePatrol
Historically, you will never see a carburetor company give you advice on how to jet a carburetor. The reason why you wont is because the dealers that sold them the cam, exhaust and other high flow mods, not only understand his mods, but his motor and elevation as well. Dealers are responsible for jetting, not the carburetor manufacturer.
Likewise, you will never see a Nitrous company give advice on how much horsepower to run on a certain set of modifications. Approved BOSS dealers do best when they either stick to the 15HP that are given with the kit, or make educated decisions based on the motor builder’s experience. As said before, in my humble opinion, the stock motor can go somewhere between 20HP and 25HP with the BOSS kit. However, change the piston and you can go higher. Which piston you choose, and how much heat it can take, will depend on your piston manufacturer, not your NOSS equipment provider.
This is not any different than other parts that are made by the TOP end performance manufacturers. Builders have to make the judgment call as to how much horsepower their motor, that they built, will take. No N20 company will do that for you. Builders that gain this knowledge by trial and error will have the most to gain, because that knowledge is worth it to many of their customers. This type of testing is done extensively by the best builders in the business - For example Horsepower Research. Have you ever seen a company do so much testing in your life? This is why they are so successful.
Another one is On-Dunes Performance for example. On-Dunes goes out to the dunes, has a new motor, chassis and nitrous system to test. They bring the engine manufacturer in and also bring in BOSS that provides the nitrous system for a full test. All companies have much to gain from the test. However, the cost of the time, gas, motel and travel expenses can be huge. In the end, who holds the knowledge? On Dunes! I fully support dealers that are willing to test all products in order to support their customers – after all, they are the ones that truly benefit.
Often I get people that call me up and try and pin me down to how much nitrous a particular motor will take. They begin by listing about 10-15 motor mods, and then ask the big question. I suppose it would be easy to throw out some numbers, but the fact is, there are way too many varieties of parts in the power train for all the different quads to come up with some factor that will spit out for them the numbers they want. Experience is key. By dealers understanding one brand of piston, one brand of crank and one brand of big bore kit, they then can have the knowledge needed to give their customers the successful build they need, with and without NOSS.
While BOSS stands behind its products for 2 full years, the success of the entire build is always with the builder.
Believe it! IMHO, Its simply builder 101
Originally posted by: DSNUT
Is that a "Yes" you will help me understand Noss or a "No" you will not?
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Originally posted by: OregonDunePatrol
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Historically, you will never see a carburetor company give you advice on how to jet a carburetor. The reason why you wont is because the dealers that sold them the cam, exhaust and other high flow mods, not only understand his mods, but his motor and elevation as well. Dealers are responsible for jetting, not the carburetor manufacturer.
Likewise, you will never see a Nitrous company give advice on how much horsepower to run on a certain set of modifications. Approved BOSS dealers do best when they either stick to the 15HP that are given with the kit, or make educated decisions based on the motor builder’s experience. As said before, in my humble opinion, the stock motor can go somewhere between 20HP and 25HP with the BOSS kit. However, change the piston and you can go higher. Which piston you choose, and how much heat it can take, will depend on your piston manufacturer, not your NOSS equipment provider.
This is not any different than other parts that are made by the TOP end performance manufacturers. Builders have to make the judgment call as to how much horsepower their motor, that they built, will take. No N20 company will do that for you. Builders that gain this knowledge by trial and error will have the most to gain, because that knowledge is worth it to many of their customers. This type of testing is done extensively by the best builders in the business - For example Horsepower Research. Have you ever seen a company do so much testing in your life? This is why they are so successful.
Another one is On-Dunes Performance for example. On-Dunes goes out to the dunes, has a new motor, chassis and nitrous system to test. They bring the engine manufacturer in and also bring in BOSS that provides the nitrous system for a full test. All companies have much to gain from the test. However, the cost of the time, gas, motel and travel expenses can be huge. In the end, who holds the knowledge? On Dunes! I fully support dealers that are willing to test all products in order to support their customers – after all, they are the ones that truly benefit.
Often I get people that call me up and try and pin me down to how much nitrous a particular motor will take. They begin by listing about 10-15 motor mods, and then ask the big question. I suppose it would be easy to throw out some numbers, but the fact is, there are way too many varieties of parts in the power train for all the different quads to come up with some factor that will spit out for them the numbers they want. Experience is key. By dealers understanding one brand of piston, one brand of crank and one brand of big bore kit, they then can have the knowledge needed to give their customers the successful build they need, with and without NOSS.
While BOSS stands behind its products for 2 full years, the success of the entire build is always with the builder.
Believe it! IMHO, Its simply builder 101
Types of DS pistons on the market: 12 (at least)
Types of cranks: 3
Types of Rods: 3
Types of cylinders: 5
Numbers of Nitrous Shots: 7 (at least)
The number of combinations: 3780
Multiply that number by the number of quads on the market.
However, if a builder settles in on a limited number of these variables, then it will be easy for that builder. That something the builder can do, but not the Nitrous manufacturer. Dont get mad simply because people dont do exactly what you want, and especially dont take it personally.
I smiled because Jed had taken the stock DS to the limit - IMHO - he is a builder. Also, dont forget, if you get a system that is not regulated, you will never have a handle on your true combinations, simply because the nitrous will be variable.
Mar 31, 2006 | 10:39 AM
#24
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Joined: May 2004
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Boss noss NOS
Gav, I ride entirely dunes. The machine will be just fine on a twenty shot, just add the colder plug, and make sure your setup is correct. Keep in mind, I have never set these up at sea level, only at 4500'. If you are at sea level, you might want to try starting with some higher octane, then once you get it cut it back. I dont know if you need that or not. I never ran higher octane in mine, until I went up to 12-1 compression. Now I run 100 octane while spraying at 4500.
Nut, like I said, I dont think ANYBODY really knows the limits. No other brand will tell you either. It gonna be a trial and error. I think Eric was going to try some big shots on his new motor. If he didnt change his mind, maybe he would be the one to talk to, to see how it went, and what he did to keep it together.
Nut, like I said, I dont think ANYBODY really knows the limits. No other brand will tell you either. It gonna be a trial and error. I think Eric was going to try some big shots on his new motor. If he didnt change his mind, maybe he would be the one to talk to, to see how it went, and what he did to keep it together.
Mar 31, 2006 | 11:12 AM
#25
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Joined: Nov 2005
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Boss noss NOS
Marky,
This conversation is over. I am not mad or hurt by you and your antics. In all the time you have spent explaining why I am out of line to ask you these questions or why you can't answer them you could have been representing and pointing me toward things to watch for while I experiment and what things to absolutely avoid. You could have said in one line what it has taken you several emotional, argumentative posts to say then turned to useful information. The only math you did was to prove why it is impossible to determine what an engine can handle. Moving forward would involve taking my setup, giving me the place to start, counsel on timing curves, octane and testing proceedures.
What you want is to convince me that you are handling this like a Noss professional. I respect that you want me to understand that answers are not generic. I have logged that away and will use it. Your assertion that I have been responding in an emotional way is misguided. I am simply disappointed for the above reasons.
Jed,
I heard you say that and I appreciate you pointing me in a direction. That is useful........to more than just me.
Ron
This conversation is over. I am not mad or hurt by you and your antics. In all the time you have spent explaining why I am out of line to ask you these questions or why you can't answer them you could have been representing and pointing me toward things to watch for while I experiment and what things to absolutely avoid. You could have said in one line what it has taken you several emotional, argumentative posts to say then turned to useful information. The only math you did was to prove why it is impossible to determine what an engine can handle. Moving forward would involve taking my setup, giving me the place to start, counsel on timing curves, octane and testing proceedures.
What you want is to convince me that you are handling this like a Noss professional. I respect that you want me to understand that answers are not generic. I have logged that away and will use it. Your assertion that I have been responding in an emotional way is misguided. I am simply disappointed for the above reasons.
Jed,
I heard you say that and I appreciate you pointing me in a direction. That is useful........to more than just me.
Ron
Mar 31, 2006 | 12:15 PM
#26
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Boss noss NOS
Ron,
Im sorry you feel that way. However, I have not changed my opinion on builder responsibilty. As I have already mentioned, its up to the builder to determine signs of problems when boosting more than the standard kit recommends.
I can not tell you what the maximum N20 horsepower the DS can take with a large list of motor mods. I'm sorry, but I cant, simply because I dont know. I have also explained why I dont know, and why nobody else can for all the variables out there. However, you will find builders that do focus in on a certain range of parts and test to the max.
Just so you know, I am not offended in the slightest by what you have said. And I stand by every word I have said. I dont believe I have a credibility problem.
Just so you understand, I support dealers.
Im sorry you feel that way. However, I have not changed my opinion on builder responsibilty. As I have already mentioned, its up to the builder to determine signs of problems when boosting more than the standard kit recommends.
I can not tell you what the maximum N20 horsepower the DS can take with a large list of motor mods. I'm sorry, but I cant, simply because I dont know. I have also explained why I dont know, and why nobody else can for all the variables out there. However, you will find builders that do focus in on a certain range of parts and test to the max.
Just so you know, I am not offended in the slightest by what you have said. And I stand by every word I have said. I dont believe I have a credibility problem.
Just so you understand, I support dealers.
Mar 31, 2006 | 07:19 PM
#28
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Boss noss NOS
Does the 2.5lb bottle fit behind the front bumper OK or is there a better mounting point? I did see in someone's pics that they had the bottle mounted on the LHS of the frame near the radiator, would that be easier for bottle refills? If anyone has any photo's of where they have there bottle fitted could they email them to me? I am at sea level and ride in temps 50/100 deg, I presume the jetting on the carb remains the same and when they say it must be dialed in they mean the NOS system? I am currently running no airbox, 200dj mains, dj needles and K&N and just an endcap.We can buy pump gas up to 98 octane, will that be good enough for a 20 shot? Not much luck finding someone to dyno my bike overhear, most shops have not heard of a bomb[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Gav gavin@git.com.au
Gav gavin@git.com.au
Mar 31, 2006 | 07:31 PM
#29
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Boss noss NOS
Originally posted by: raptorgav
Does the 2.5lb bottle fit behind the front bumper OK or is there a better mounting point? I did see in someone's pics that they had the bottle mounted on the LHS of the frame near the radiator, would that be easier for bottle refills? If anyone has any photo's of where they have there bottle fitted could they email them to me? I am at sea level and ride in temps 50/100 deg, I presume the jetting on the carb remains the same and when they say it must be dialed in they mean the NOS system? I am currently running no airbox, 200dj mains, dj needles and K&N and just an endcap.We can buy pump gas up to 98 octane, will that be good enough for a 20 shot? Not much luck finding someone to dyno my bike overhear, most shops have not heard of a bomb[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Gav gavin@git.com.au
Does the 2.5lb bottle fit behind the front bumper OK or is there a better mounting point? I did see in someone's pics that they had the bottle mounted on the LHS of the frame near the radiator, would that be easier for bottle refills? If anyone has any photo's of where they have there bottle fitted could they email them to me? I am at sea level and ride in temps 50/100 deg, I presume the jetting on the carb remains the same and when they say it must be dialed in they mean the NOS system? I am currently running no airbox, 200dj mains, dj needles and K&N and just an endcap.We can buy pump gas up to 98 octane, will that be good enough for a 20 shot? Not much luck finding someone to dyno my bike overhear, most shops have not heard of a bomb[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
Gav gavin@git.com.au
As far as size goes, the 2.5lb bottle will fit in front on the DS. Its 4"X11". Remember you have to keep the bottle, bottle valve down to the ground or angled to the rear of the quad and to the ground. Thats the best position since the bottle sucks from the valve.
The jetting on the carb should be correct before you install the NOSS. But you are correct, the NOSS part stays in tune regardless of the elevation. The NOSS Nozzle would go on the back of your K&N Filter. The Fuel dump can go right at the bell of the carb on the filter side, or between the carb and the motor in the intake manifold.
You'll need to run 4steps higher in octane than your piston recommends. One step cooler on the plug helps.
Apr 1, 2006 | 02:10 AM
#30
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Boss noss NOS
Marky,
When you say 4 'steps' what do you mean by a 'step?' Would one Octane point be a step? IE: going from 87 to 91 would then be 4 steps. If a step is one grade level, then I would assume going from 87 to 89 would be one step (low to mid) and up to 91 would be a second step. Since there is no 93/95 octane pump, would a person then need to run 95 octane (or basically a blend of pump/race to achieve approximately 95 octane?
As I recall, one step cooler on the plugs means going up by one number, correct to a 9 series from an 8? (Man, it has been so long I don't even remember what plug the DS uses!)
For example I run 87 octane in my DSs which seems great, and if I ever buy a system I'd be quite conservative and only go 15 or 20 max. Depending on how you define a 'step' tells me alot about the fuel that would the be required to assumedly prevent pre-detonation. So for me, if I could go up to pump premium and run a 15/20 without pre-detonation I would be happy. However for me if I have to buy any amount of race gas - between the cost and major hassle to get it I would have to pass on the idea. I just don't have the time to drive to F&L Fuels in the valley to pick up fuel, nor am I excited about the costs of the fuels. Though other people, this really doesn't bother them.
I've always been a sceptic of various technologies - the TM45 never looked like a good option, and all of the usual NOS applications looked too hokey for me. I find the Lectron 46HV to be the perfect carburetion device for me and if I were to mess with NOS, the BOSS system appears to be my pic as well. Now before I go and spend money though; I really have to find time to go out and ride the ATV I would put it on. Considering I've been working long hours through the week and working many weekend days lately it is no suprise (to me) that I haven't even sat on my ATV in the garage since Mid January's trip to Glamis.
When you say 4 'steps' what do you mean by a 'step?' Would one Octane point be a step? IE: going from 87 to 91 would then be 4 steps. If a step is one grade level, then I would assume going from 87 to 89 would be one step (low to mid) and up to 91 would be a second step. Since there is no 93/95 octane pump, would a person then need to run 95 octane (or basically a blend of pump/race to achieve approximately 95 octane?
As I recall, one step cooler on the plugs means going up by one number, correct to a 9 series from an 8? (Man, it has been so long I don't even remember what plug the DS uses!)
For example I run 87 octane in my DSs which seems great, and if I ever buy a system I'd be quite conservative and only go 15 or 20 max. Depending on how you define a 'step' tells me alot about the fuel that would the be required to assumedly prevent pre-detonation. So for me, if I could go up to pump premium and run a 15/20 without pre-detonation I would be happy. However for me if I have to buy any amount of race gas - between the cost and major hassle to get it I would have to pass on the idea. I just don't have the time to drive to F&L Fuels in the valley to pick up fuel, nor am I excited about the costs of the fuels. Though other people, this really doesn't bother them.
I've always been a sceptic of various technologies - the TM45 never looked like a good option, and all of the usual NOS applications looked too hokey for me. I find the Lectron 46HV to be the perfect carburetion device for me and if I were to mess with NOS, the BOSS system appears to be my pic as well. Now before I go and spend money though; I really have to find time to go out and ride the ATV I would put it on. Considering I've been working long hours through the week and working many weekend days lately it is no suprise (to me) that I haven't even sat on my ATV in the garage since Mid January's trip to Glamis.