Ok, I thought HPR implied it couldn't be done on Big Bore web page, many people were buying multiple big bore cylinders, and until now, I've never heard it from HPR's mouth.

Currently, I am waiting on blower development for DS650 from trickracing1.net
Meanwhile, Scooby's cylinder anaylsis, exact piston compression design for with and without blower design, head research to match both alternatives, and learning more about complex blower/ice system interfaces - blowers adds great complexity. Remember, I want a high speed tourer and city flat tracker too: very tough combination for smooth throttle range, reliability, and economy. So its easiest to eliminate alternatives.

As an engineer, I am always learning and always improving designs. There is so much institutionalized propoganda, it slows progress up. A common strategy is to get a person to buy a performance item as quick as they can. Then it will upset oem equilibrium balance of bike tune, and vendor will keep suggesting unmanageable combinations until it blows up or will just start over again. Most give up and say screw it, so its not a very intelligent strategy or lack of one.

These particular vendors have eggs in one basket of one design for one bike, with a strategy that does not benefit the end consumer; and they have little chance of future existance. Usually they spread propoganda until their last breath. But if a win-win customer-vendor relationship is established, they can be quite successful. That takes significant work, competitive pricing, and continuous development though, so its not an easy thing to do. And if you are already to web propoganda stage, it may be too late (wasting resources on one time sales and not return customers). Best of wishes. Your time could be better spent elseways. However, I am revealing new process alternatives and revealing shadey marketing strategies in response, so its not a total waste. Marketing lesson for the day: win-win strategies always do better, and people are not stupid, lol.

 

Now wait a minute, I thought you said I spoke for HPR. Yet you dont believe me and you want to hear from HPR that their cylinder can be re-nikasiled if necessary? Which is it?[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

It sounds like you plan to research until there is no chance of further improvement, then you will finally make a purchase. My hobbies are not business decisions. To me, hobbies are trying what I want to try and facing the challenge of making the whole thing successful by solving the problems, going fast and feeling good sbout what I have accomplished.

It sounds like for you, hobbies are mostly about research and theory and the initial learning about what results might be had if implemented. That is cool.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/img] I respect that because you enjoy it and that is what hobbies are for. I can also respect that as thoroughly as you seem to go through the different ideas, once you have it figured out, there really isn't any need to try it.

I, on the other hand, have to try the things out to feel I have a grasp of what is going on..........within reason. I do think you are off base regarding HPR and your animosity towards them. I have had nothing but good service from them and I actually don't mind their prices. I pay a little premium on spark plugs and head gaskets that I might be able to find cheaper elsewhere because they compensate me in spades by being willing to counsel me on setup and anything that will help me perform better. I buy the items I can buy anywhere from them to try and support their R&D efforts and to thank them for all the help. The performance items like pistons, cams, cylinders, cranks, heads......I buy that stuff and pay the price for the technology.

You are exactly right about good business involving win/win but you are mistaken about what you are revealing. You have assumed that because you had never thought about a supercharger on a DS, that no one had, lol. Alba did that one you have in your picture page in '02 or '03..............yet it isn't in their line up on their website. I actually think your assumption that information is not availible to the rest of us until you think of it and research it explains why you felt the need to tell me that "people are not stupid". That is maybe the smartest thing I have ever heard anyone say in the history of time. People are not stupid, in fact I make it a practice to not underestimate them..........There are many different kinds of "smart" though. Make sure you always know which kind you are dealing with, lol.

I think you are a decent guy, Yjacket and Lord knows I thoroughly enjoy the banter so I hope you are having fun to. I misunderstood you when I pressured you to make up your mind and try something. You are already doing exactly what you enjoy about your hobby. I get it now.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

More power to you![img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Who are you speaking for exactly, a house builder? With propaganda accusations assumed true because you can type them, certainly not an engineer exposing the truth.

You forget the ULTIMATE ALTERNATIVE, 85 HP Rotax vertical twin BOMBARDIER engine 10 lbs lighter option than F650 STOCK. A complete new bike with all systems for about the same price as 730 big bore, valve job, lectrons, and extras required and installed and tuned? And that combo will not be 85 reliable constant hp.

I appreciate the 650 single rotax, but for racing? Give me a break. Win-Win, remember? Technology changes and agile vendors along with it, remember?

See my Page pictures for more exact detailed drawings including engine, drive train, and off-road bike example.
For $10.5K a complete bike with Bombardier twin rotax 85HP(!), see 69 second film clip of F800 S model in Alps:

F800 Bombardier 800 85hp S(treet) model in Swiss Alps

 

http://forums.atvconnection.com/mess...word1=cylinder


Isn't it interesting how one minute you can't get people to check out a good supplier and the next minute they are the talk of the town.

Sometimes the kids will listen to you and the next time - Why listen to that Oldman, old people don't know anything!!!!


OMR

 

I have learned a little more about you from with this statement. What does a simple homebuilder know about anything.......
Although I am disappointed by this turn of events, I am not entirely surprised. Carry on, Yjacket,.........carry on.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

OMR,

I hear ya, lol. We young'uns are a mite unruly at times. Thanks for all the data you provide! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Ron

 

quick update:

well i ran my DS w/105.0mm bored and re-plated millenium cylinder today. i run alcohol, twin 40mm open loop fuel injection with two 160 lb/hr injectors, air/fuel ratio set between 4.0 to 4.5, custom curved vortex ignition (34 degrees timing off boost, then dynamically switches over to 9 other user selectable timings when boost comes up - hobbs pressure swich), 0.425 lift cams, cometic MLS head gasket, ...

i ran 15psi on it without any problems. no overheating, no head gasket leaks, nothing. it's the best i've ever had this DS running. i even hit the 11,000 RPM rev limiter a couple times.

boost response is even better than it was before.

time will tell more...

note to self, install 17/36 gearing before trip.

 

Congratulations Scooby!

Keep us updated. Nice to hear there is another quality option.

 

Scooby,

Wow, that's great. I don't know how similar turbo boost is to supercharger boost, but according to one atmosphere chart for supercharger boost:

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/article....n=read&A_id=57

15psi would boost 8:1CR more than double, so that's a strong beta test for sure.


Thanks!!

 

i actually went up 9.4:1 compression.