COST me a lot of hard earned cash to figure that out!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some people just dont listen tho!!! Just keep spending and I will say I told ya so LOL

 

Mr Hp said:
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If someone tries to machine the dome on a JE 11.5:1 shelf piston you are asking for trouble because they pocket mill the bottom side of the piston to create a hollow dome for weight reduction purposes. You're going to break through or at best have a very thin spot in the dome. Good luck!
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It will be easy to measure, but who was talking about a hollow dome for weight purposes??? I am talking about reducing piston dome 'level' about .02 with smooth transformations on all edges for a 1/2 CR reduction: not much. I have an email into JE piston 14 year piston designer who is 2 wheel land speed record holder, so he will offer his suggeestions. John Noonan told me stock AL cylinder with JE piston would be a better option than 105mm steel insert. He had the integrity to tell the truth above selling a JE sleeve which is admirable. So if I find this is a significant amount milled off top, either get:

1. 3 other people who want better than OEM reliability to go in for JE custom pistons ($175 ea+ Shipping), or
2. CP custom piston by itself, or
3. CP custom piston with Millennium Big bore option kit ($465 with bore, and add $200 for racing spec AL insert).

Cost should be about the same either way, with indirect expenses effected only.

You may be right, but I am exploring all options since I take deviating OEM specs seriously as I do budgeting needless or systemic damaging changes. .02 machined as a percentage maybe significant or it may be minutia, depending on specific piston design.


Mr HP said:
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Been alot of sleeve talk lately. Sleeves work fine in cylinders that were designed for them. SLEEVES WORK FINE IN CYLINDERS THAT WERE DESIGNED FOR THEM. CAN ANYBODY HEAR WHAT I'M SAYING? The regulars can debate this till the cow's come home...I could care less but for the new guy that cant afford to waste his money I'm here to tell you stay with a stock bore if you cant afford a good big bore. You will make MORE horsepower with a smaller ROUND cylinder than a big egg shaped cylinder. I have had countless "I got a good deal" sleeved cylinders in my shop and they ALL look the same. Just measured one today with a very few hrs of run time on it. The guy said I just cant figure this thing out...it just wont run, it don't make any power. Anybody care to hear the numbers??
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Hmmmm, maybe you are saying HPR big bore cylinders design is not condusive to work well with AL sleeves. IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?
The plain simple facts are of all the known and presented alternatives TODAY, there was only ONE steel sleeve alternative, 2 AL sleeve alternatives, and the rest were no bore or bore AL cylinder/nikasil cylinders with NO sleeve. So unless you have numbers about AL inserts from Millennium/Pami/current machine house or boring AL cylinder from Millennium, then statistics are not within valid subset of alternatives and meaningless. John implied its not the insert, its the material (steel vs AL). The the same insert and cylinder material will act as one with an insignificant inefficiency. Racers of all brands use them from Millennium. The world 2 wheel land record holder uses them from Millennium.



Sandbomber said:
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COST me a lot of hard earned cash to figure that out!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some people just dont listen tho!!! Just keep spending and I will say I told ya so LOL
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You have spent a lot of money for racing research, and I am grateful. I should thank you, others should thank you, and others do thank you every day. Thank you.

 

I said this,
""as far as the reliability comment # 3 about slipping, well the millions of factory sleeves installed in all motors both bike and quad alike prior to the creation of the DS didn't seem to have any problems, although point #7 about strength does try to validate the reliability statement.""

And MRHP said this,
""SLEEVES WORK FINE IN CYLINDERS THAT WERE DESIGNED FOR THEM. CAN ANYBODY HEAR WHAT I'M SAYING? The regulars can debate this till the cow's come home...""

I do not and will not argue or debate that at all. The trouble is, when the big bore cast jugs came out and all the debate was started, I cannot recall any description like the one mentioned in "point #7". All I remember is some people saying sleeves slip - a general statement aimed at the fact that some have slipped in some of the steel sleeved motors out there, and we all know that some of those that did slip were not machined or installed correctly. I do not recall a legitimate and logical explanation as to why sleeves won't work in a DS factory jug. And then top that off with some of the successes and hell yeah you got something to debate. Now sure I may have overlooked such a logical explanation, but if I did, so did alot of other people. There should have been more detailed discussions about why the DS jug does not support sleeving well, rather than just saying straight up that it doesn't.

I applaud HPR for their efforts and advancements and new products, but MRHP and 222 both you guys need to stick closer to factual explanations with less gray area, rather than sounding like you are just talking bad about competition. Many posts as well as your website are littered with very subtle and sly and casual and well thought out competetion bashing, straight up 222 style, and that is the absolute only reason why I own none of your products.

 

the only reason i posted this was, i remember how sam coe worked over several guys engines, and now it looks like there is a system of his back on the market. lay low for a few years and get back on board.

 

Other than HPR and on Dunes, what other Venders are on the ATV Connecton Forums??

 

TBR....AKA: TheBomRacing, DSWORKS....AKA: TVI, [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

Huum just went looking under Forum Member Nicknames could not find TBR or DSWORKS maybe they solicit on another forum or another name.

 

Hmm, Its funny that I didnt find HPR or Ondunes as other Forum Member Nicknames either, [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

i think jeffs name is "TheBom" (thebomracing) and garys is "boomer84" (TVI )

 

Your exactly right Bigshow, Im just trying to figure out what kind of point ERBE is trying to make by making such a statement as this....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]