Knutz........

What I was trying to say is that you can send your 400ex for and have a 416 kit installed for around a grand. These will run with a Pipe Raptor and my Piped DS, I've seen it.

Let take a Raptor & a DS. They are the big cc class (for now anyways) take both and let do some upgrades. Punch them both out with about the same piston size, mod the case as you'll new to, add some cams and anything else that is need complete the job. What the final total? From my price check the Raptor Piston is around $200 and the Bomb piston is around $370 for about the same piston size. And the cams are $225 and the bombs are around $425. This is just two of the many parts and as you see they are almost double. All I'm saying is that I wish it wasn't so much to upgrade the motor of the DS. Someday (hopefully), webber, wisco, etc will get into making bomb cams and pistons so the pricing will drop like the others. That's all I'm hoping for.

 

Speaking of the cam, the Raptor is a low tech SOHC design, while the DS is a high tech DOHC design. That explains the cams easily. Ever recall why people were bashing the Banshee for being dual cylinder - everything costs twice as much. As far as the piston, the Raptor has a sleeve, which I can't say for sure, but I would assume is not as advanced technologically as a Nikasil'ed cylinder. (I doubt in the early days of engine making they knew how to perfect the process of 'electro fusion to the cylinder wall.')

 

The DS pistons are usually between $200-240. I've never seen one go for 375. Maybe you saw that price on the Pami website. Those prices are given in Deutch marks which are approximately 2 per dollar. I don't know, just a guess.

 

Pami 12.5:1 piston.$305.

 

I have to stand up and defend NewDSLovewr on one point. Our Team Pami, 102MM piston, at 12:1 compression, lists for $373.75. Our 100MM piston does sell for $304.75, as Vegas stated though.

Your example of the 416 running with a pipes DS or Raptor, blows your own theory though. $1000, plus the cost of the pipe, to run with a piped bike?, that makes the DS look like a better value to me.

I can't say that I know the prices of Raptor pistons off the top of my head, so you may be right on that, but the cams are a different story. While your prices may be right for the cams, keep in mind that there are two cams in a DS, and only one in a Raptor. Basicly, that means they are about the same price, but you have to buy twice as many for a DS. If you really want, you can buy one race cam at a time from me, but that would be rather silly.

How about carbs though? Any idea the price to upgrade Raptor carbs. $350 for a Mikuni for the DS. I've heard from $700-$900 to put new carbs on the Raptor. 1 for the DS, 2 for the Raptor.

 

Hey Knutz, speaking of carbs. How is the Air Induction System coming? Have you made any headway?

Biggerisbetter.

 

Guys~

Knutz is right on the carbs. All I'm trying to say is that......Ok I'm whinning...... I don't mind spending money on upgrades - come on, I owned a Scrambler 400 before the DS - I know how to spend money. I just feel like most things for the DS cost too much. I just bought a chain from my dealer, $141 plus tax. My brother-in-law ordered an x-ring gold series for his LT250r for $59. What if Coke was the only soft drink around, do you still think it would be .55 a can out of a pop machine. I think we need more shops like Wisco and others to start making parts for the DS so maybe I can get a 760 kit too. I don't mind paying for Knutz's Labor to do the work. He doesn't get paid for what he does, but for what he knows. I can do what he does, bore the jug, relieve the valves, port the head, etc.....BUT IT WON'T WORK. That's why he gets paid for what he knows, not what he does.

 

Thanks NewDSLover, I appreciate the good words. I don't charge the prices I do because I have a monopoly, I'm not making a fortune on this business by a long shot. As a matter of fact, I'm barely getting by. Because there are not alot of customers out there, I can't buy things at as big of a discount as poeple who sell Raptor products. If I could sell volume, I could buy volume, and prices would be better. More manufacturers would mean that each manufacturer would sell even fewer units. It's a vicious cycle, but driven by sales.

Your chain example is driven by two factors.-
1. You got your chain from a dealer, and your buddy ordered his[mail order?] Dealers charge more to cover there overhead, and mail order places sell higher volume, hence they buy at lower prices.

2. Your DS has[and needs] a much stronger chain than that for an LT250. You run a 530 chain as opposed to the Zuki's 520[?]. Your just paying a higher price for a higher strength product.

 

Knutz, what is your website address, also what is team pami's website address if they have one thanx

 

I stand corrected on the prices. Does anyone think that $375 is a bit steep for one piston. Knutz, do you get those pistons from Pami? You might want to think about taking some of the pistons to JE and having a couple dozen copies made. My dad had 12 pistons custom made for a Ferrari there and it came out to around $1500, or $125 a piece. Granted these were smaller pistons, but the amount of aluminum used shouldn't affect price that much. If you could get them made at $150 a piece and sell them for $250 we would all win. As I don't know the extent of your relationship with Pami, this might not be feasible. Just venting.

Also, how much power will a 42mm Mikuni give over the stocker and will the K&N clamp on from the stocker fit? And does that price you quoted a few posts back include a cable? Thanks.