Sand tires
#1
07-27-1999, 03:13 PM
There are so many choices in sand tires I'm looking for a little guidance. What are the differnces in hook up between the number of paddles, and the straight versus slanted paddles? Is there one brand that works better than the others for each type of tire? Thanks in advance for the advice.
#2
07-27-1999, 05:07 PM
I'll stick with what I know. I have used three different types of paddle tires on our TRX-R's.
I feel that 20X10-10 8 paddle Skat-Trak Haulers have been the best tire. I've ran 20X11-9 8 paddles and felt that they didn't hook up as well in softer sand. The difference was subtle, but noticable.
I've also ran 20X10-10 8 Paddle Skat-Trak Edges, they were OK. I know there is alot of discussion among riders about a V paddle versus a straight paddle. In my experience there has been little difference in "sliding" and turning abilities between the two types.
I did own, by inheritance from the intial purchase, a set of Cheng-shin Dune Hoppers. They were like 22X10-8 8 paddles. I did not like them, they did not hook up anywhere near the way Haulers do.
So that's been my experience with each type and brand of tire, your experience may differ.
I feel that 20X10-10 8 paddle Skat-Trak Haulers have been the best tire. I've ran 20X11-9 8 paddles and felt that they didn't hook up as well in softer sand. The difference was subtle, but noticable.
I've also ran 20X10-10 8 Paddle Skat-Trak Edges, they were OK. I know there is alot of discussion among riders about a V paddle versus a straight paddle. In my experience there has been little difference in "sliding" and turning abilities between the two types.
I did own, by inheritance from the intial purchase, a set of Cheng-shin Dune Hoppers. They were like 22X10-8 8 paddles. I did not like them, they did not hook up anywhere near the way Haulers do.
So that's been my experience with each type and brand of tire, your experience may differ.
#3
07-27-1999, 06:28 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
It really depends on what you ride and where you ride it at.
Lets look at a couple of the different tires.
Scat-Trac are a vulcanized tire. Another words the paddles are "attached" to the tire. The tire carcass is very thin walled which makes it light and gives the tire great floating abilities. The paddles are cupped and have great "hookup" Certainly a great, well known and respected tire. It does have a downside though. Because the paddles are vulcanized to the tire they have a tendency to "rip off". As long as you don't hit anything hard rocks, roads or trees they'll last a while.
Sand Skates. Another great tire. The big plus with these is that the paddles are actually part of the mold. Another words they will not "rip off". The tire itself is thicker which makes it more puncture resistent but also makes the tire heavier and takes away from the float ability.
As for the paddles? The more paddles the harder the motor has to work to turn the tires. This is also true with the height of each paddle. Scat Trac offers Gliders which are good for bikes 200cc and less. Haulers for 250cc and more, and Taller Haulers for 500cc and up. The amont of paddles you want will depend on how big your motor is. Generally 5 paddles are good for around 80cc, 6-8 (Glider) for 200cc, 6-8 (Hauler) for 250cc and 10 for 350cc. Sand Skates come as either Sand Skates or Sand Skate II. Sand Skates are good for 250cc. Sand Skate II are good for 350cc or bigger. You can run the II's on a 250 but you'll tend to bog in the really soft stuff and on the bigger hills.
The wider the tire, the better float you will have. In paddles "Wide is good". 10-12 is preferred for your width.
As for height? Height takes away from your bottom end but gives you more top end. Tire height also gives you more "cusion" in your ride. Your less likely to bend rims. 20"-21" is about average on most bikes.
Rim size? The bigger the rim, the more likely it is to bend. The bigger the rim, the cooler it looks. You make the call.
The choice is up to the rider. Remember "dig" is good but too much "dig" can cause you problems. I.E. can't make it up steep hills because motor is bogging down. Then again not enough dig will cause you problems also. I.E. can't make it up the steep hill because tires just spin.
Also remember the durability factor of the tire. Are there rocks where you ride? Lots of graded dirt roads. Or is it just pure unclutered sand?
Well I hope this helps. It's alot of info so use it wisely. Paddles aren't cheap and buying the wrong set really sucks.
------------------
'96 Banshee, '86 250R 4TRX, 2 '83 185S
[This message has been edited by Darby Crash (edited 07-27-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Darby Crash (edited 07-28-1999).]
Lets look at a couple of the different tires.
Scat-Trac are a vulcanized tire. Another words the paddles are "attached" to the tire. The tire carcass is very thin walled which makes it light and gives the tire great floating abilities. The paddles are cupped and have great "hookup" Certainly a great, well known and respected tire. It does have a downside though. Because the paddles are vulcanized to the tire they have a tendency to "rip off". As long as you don't hit anything hard rocks, roads or trees they'll last a while.
Sand Skates. Another great tire. The big plus with these is that the paddles are actually part of the mold. Another words they will not "rip off". The tire itself is thicker which makes it more puncture resistent but also makes the tire heavier and takes away from the float ability.
As for the paddles? The more paddles the harder the motor has to work to turn the tires. This is also true with the height of each paddle. Scat Trac offers Gliders which are good for bikes 200cc and less. Haulers for 250cc and more, and Taller Haulers for 500cc and up. The amont of paddles you want will depend on how big your motor is. Generally 5 paddles are good for around 80cc, 6-8 (Glider) for 200cc, 6-8 (Hauler) for 250cc and 10 for 350cc. Sand Skates come as either Sand Skates or Sand Skate II. Sand Skates are good for 250cc. Sand Skate II are good for 350cc or bigger. You can run the II's on a 250 but you'll tend to bog in the really soft stuff and on the bigger hills.
The wider the tire, the better float you will have. In paddles "Wide is good". 10-12 is preferred for your width.
As for height? Height takes away from your bottom end but gives you more top end. Tire height also gives you more "cusion" in your ride. Your less likely to bend rims. 20"-21" is about average on most bikes.
Rim size? The bigger the rim, the more likely it is to bend. The bigger the rim, the cooler it looks. You make the call.
The choice is up to the rider. Remember "dig" is good but too much "dig" can cause you problems. I.E. can't make it up steep hills because motor is bogging down. Then again not enough dig will cause you problems also. I.E. can't make it up the steep hill because tires just spin.
Also remember the durability factor of the tire. Are there rocks where you ride? Lots of graded dirt roads. Or is it just pure unclutered sand?
Well I hope this helps. It's alot of info so use it wisely. Paddles aren't cheap and buying the wrong set really sucks.
------------------
'96 Banshee, '86 250R 4TRX, 2 '83 185S
[This message has been edited by Darby Crash (edited 07-27-1999).]
[This message has been edited by Darby Crash (edited 07-28-1999).]
#4
08-01-1999, 10:57 AM
#5
08-02-1999, 12:41 PM
Guest
Posts: n/a
Honestly? No.
Front sand tires don't really give you the dollar to performance ratio that you might think.
The difference between regular tires and sand tires is really all in the weight. You see when your turning in the sand all your front tires really do is "plow". They push the sand into piles which is what makes you turn.
Since smooth buffs don't weigh anything (same with mohawks) they don't push as well. As for a tire with the center rib, they usually push better and weigh more so they do improve handling over the others.
As for a knobbie? Knobbies always weigh more than any sand tire. Knobbies usually have a defined edge or center lugs. Therefore because of the weight and design, knobbies push as much if not more sand than any sand tire around. This means your handling is going to be the same if not better with a set of knobbies. The only downside is the weight when your racing up the hills, they may slow you down a fraction of a second.
In my opinion sand tires on the front look cool but really do not offer all that much improvement (if any) over knobbies.
Just for the record I run the stock knobbies (yes still the original from when the bike was new) on the Honda. On the Banshee I've got a set of mohawks.
------------------
'96 Banshee, '86 250R 4TRX, 2 '83 185S
Front sand tires don't really give you the dollar to performance ratio that you might think.
The difference between regular tires and sand tires is really all in the weight. You see when your turning in the sand all your front tires really do is "plow". They push the sand into piles which is what makes you turn.
Since smooth buffs don't weigh anything (same with mohawks) they don't push as well. As for a tire with the center rib, they usually push better and weigh more so they do improve handling over the others.
As for a knobbie? Knobbies always weigh more than any sand tire. Knobbies usually have a defined edge or center lugs. Therefore because of the weight and design, knobbies push as much if not more sand than any sand tire around. This means your handling is going to be the same if not better with a set of knobbies. The only downside is the weight when your racing up the hills, they may slow you down a fraction of a second.
In my opinion sand tires on the front look cool but really do not offer all that much improvement (if any) over knobbies.
Just for the record I run the stock knobbies (yes still the original from when the bike was new) on the Honda. On the Banshee I've got a set of mohawks.
------------------
'96 Banshee, '86 250R 4TRX, 2 '83 185S
#6
08-02-1999, 11:20 PM
Ok Darby, I coppied this thread so I could study your picks and this is what I'm coming up with for my 400EX, Sand Skate 21/12x10. I know you said the eitght inchers were more durable, but you shouldn't have told me the 10's look cooler. Anyway, wudaya think?
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TRXter
400EX
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TRXter
400EX
#7
08-06-1999, 03:04 AM
Although i have limited experience with paddles, I will say the Skat Trak "Edges" do work pretty well. I do worry about the paddles coming off of the tire as i have to ride some semi-hardpack road with grapefruit size rocks littering the road to get to the dunes. They have befun to lose ******, but not the whole paddle, yet. I will be going with the Sand Skats next time. As a side note, I was curious as to how well my LT 250 R would run in the sand with the Holeshots XC's on the rear. I always knew paddles made a difference, but i did not ever imagine it would be that much of a difference! I turned around before i even got to the main dunes! I will never run without paddles in the sand.
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