Anyone know the reason why a 03 foreman es cant be bump started?
Ive tried going down a hill, 4th gear, and flick the kill switch to off, and back to on, in less than 1/2 second....the motor continues to provide engine braking( its spinning), but theres no spark. Itll just keep engine braking, til it comes to a stop. I shift it back to nuetral, hit the starter,and it fires right up.
The motor is being spun over, but it doesnt fire.
Has it got something to do with the honda saftey feature of only being able to start in nuetral?
Can the 450 s be bump started? Can a pre '98 be bump started?

 

its not like a dirt bike when you pop the clutch with the key on rolling down a hill.
its like an automatic car it wont start just rolling down a hill.
i think with a car you need to be doing around 20 mph.
so i dont know how fast your es would need to be going.
why are you doing this anyways.

 

it cant be good for that formen

 

Its not the poping of the clutch that starts the motor, Its the wheels turning the motor over( instead of the starter).
Ask any mechanic, It doesnt hurt a thing to do this.
My kodiak will start this way, and all of the yamis with the ultramatic, as will most suzuki with the auto.
As far as I know, all of the manual clutch machines will start this way as well. It doesnt take 20 mph to get it going. I can be going 5mph, with the kodiak and itll start.


Im trying to figure out why, it isnt posible to bump start a foreman. Im curious as to why the motor will spin over, but not start. The key is on, kill switch to run...why no spark?
Ive tried pulling it with my kodiak, and the motor turns over, but it wont start. And if I stop pulling it, go to nuetral, and hit the starter button...it fires right up.

 

i dont think its set up to start that way.
plus your yamaha and the suzukis are belts like a sled.
the tranny on the honda is like a car tranny.
plus like trailblazerguy said it cant be to good for the tranny to try and start it that way.
its not desinged to start that way.
besides its got a pull cord if the starter or battery fails you.

 

Hondabuster I don't have a wiring diagram for your Forman but I think you are right about the neutral lock-out. I see where you are coming from on this issue.
One way to try out your theory is get it winging and pop it in neutral while the engine is still turning over with the key on. If you can do this, it should light the plug enough times to get your Forman lit. (If you/we are right)

PS I really enjoy reading your posts and advice, and thought you were in the business with all of the knowlege. You've helped dozens of people on this board with very good advice.

 

Thanks for the compliments, Im glad someone sees my point, about bump starting.
I have a wiring diagram, and it doesnt really help. Too many signals and inputs go into the electronic control module, and its just a blank box on the diagram. It doesnt show any logic circuits.
I gotta believe theres a simple jumper, I could add to bypass the issue.
I work on quads and motorcycles, and sometimes the easiest way to get a subborn motor to start is to bump start it. And if you think bump starting will hurt a motor...dont go near a dealership, they do it too. Its much easier on the motor than quirting something in the carb.
Ive heard that simply putting 12 volts on the nuetral light circuit, is all it takes, but on a es, it confuses the ecm, to see both the real gear and a nuetral signal. Then the -- starts to flash, and that will defeat the starting too.
The tranny on the 450 is not like a car. Its exactly like any other motorcycle/atv manual shift tranny. Its just got some fancy electric motor doing the clutch disengagement, and gear change, instead of the foot lever.
And its odd, that a belt drive tranny on the yamaha, will allow bump starting, but a manual tranny on a honda wont.
Anyone else curious about this?
Theres nothing better to do, when its this cold, than discuss quads and how they work. I may have helped out others, and now im looking for some insight. I know there are guys out there, who know lots more than I do, just trying to tap into it.
If it bothers you that I bump start motors, please do me a favor and read the other posts. Its noted, that you have an objection...and im not concerned about it. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

The 450 has a wet clutch/centrifical clutch drive system. The wet clutch pack is always engaged, until the shift button is activated, where it momentarily disengages the clutch pack, as well as moves the gear shift arm, so that clutch pack is not endangered when the unit is 'bump started'. The centrifical clutch has 4 weights in a drum, that have a clutch lining surface on the outside of them. As the crankshaft spins, the weights fly out and engage to the drum. Now, the center of the centrifical clutch pack ( weight assembly ) is bolted to the crankshaft. the outer centrifical drum has a gear on it that meshes to a gear on the outside of the wet clutch pack basket. The inner part of the wet clutch pack is bolted to the main shaft of the transmission. The outer drum of the centrifical clutch spins around the center weight assembly, on a one way bearing ( sprag ). When turned one way, the drum free wheels and turned the other way it locks the drum to the center weight assembly ( which is bolted directly to the crankshaft ). So when you are trying to 'bump start' your unit, you are directly torqueing off the sprag bearing. Since the wet clutch is always engaged, you may ( maybe ) cause the sprag bearing to chatter on its inner machined grabbing surface ( backside of the center weight assembly ). If this does get chattered, the 'sprag' bearing may not want to release on occasion, causing the engine to stall when the unit is running and rolling to a stop, as it will not let the drum disengage from the crankshaft. But the bearing surface would have to be pretty visibly damaged for this to happen.

As far as the engine not starting in gear, here is a clue ... the light green wire with the red stripe on it, runs directly into the Ignition Control Module from the neutral position pick-up, within the gear position switch. The gear position switch is stashed inside the rear engine cover.

----- Gregg -----

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: Gimpster
The 450 has a wet clutch/centrifical clutch drive system. The wet clutch pack is always engaged, until the shift button is activated, where it momentarily disengages the clutch pack, as well as moves the gear shift arm, so that clutch pack is not endangered when the unit is 'bump started'. The centrifical clutch has 4 weights in a drum, that have a clutch lining surface on the outside of them. As the crankshaft spins, the weights fly out and engage to the drum. Now, the center of the centrifical clutch pack ( weight assembly ) is bolted to the crankshaft. the outer centrifical drum has a gear on it that meshes to a gear on the outside of the wet clutch pack basket. The inner part of the wet clutch pack is bolted to the main shaft of the transmission. The outer drum of the centrifical clutch spins around the center weight assembly, on a one way bearing ( sprag ). When turned one way, the drum free wheels and turned the other way it locks the drum to the center weight assembly ( which is bolted directly to the crankshaft ). So when you are trying to 'bump start' your unit, you are directly torqueing off the sprag bearing. Since the wet clutch is always engaged, you may ( maybe ) cause the sprag bearing to chatter on its inner machined grabbing surface ( backside of the center weight assembly ). If this does get chattered, the 'sprag' bearing may not want to release on occasion, causing the engine to stall when the unit is running and rolling to a stop, as it will not let the drum disengage from the crankshaft. But the bearing surface would have to be pretty visibly damaged for this to happen.

As far as the engine not starting in gear, here is a clue ... the light green wire with the red stripe on it, runs directly into the Ignition Control Module from the neutral position pick-up, within the gear position switch. The gear position switch is stashed inside the rear engine cover.

Thats the wire, that others have talked about, when 12 volts is put on it, itll start in gear. But I figured it would confuse the ecm, and it wouldnt know which gear its in. Then Id end up with the flashing--. Have you tried it? I also noticed there is a diode, which is on that same wire, in the fuse box. Do you know why the diode is there?
Im thinking a s model, will bump start, has anyone tried bump starting an 450S?

Doctor turbo, I was thinking this over
"One way to try out your theory is get it winging and pop it in neutral while the engine is still turning over with the key on. If you can do this,"
And the es wont let the tranny downshift into nuetral, when the tires are moving faster than 2 mph. Any other ideas?

 

WOW!!! Talk about safety interlocks!!! What next, an iris scan read before your quad will start? Air bags?
Sorry Hondabuster your over my head now, I'm out of ideas.