Two rumors have been very hot the past couple weeks.

Rincon 720..single cylinder NOT based on the 680 but has the same basic tranny,..but finally with a low range mode. No word on a diff lock, but I doubt it. Two versions,...a traditional and a model with a rear steering feature at slow speeds.

A new entry level sport quad that replaces both the 250EX AND the 300EX after 2009. No word on what the engine is based on for sure, but I hear alot about the CRF230F engine,...which I hope is not true as that engine doesnt hold a candle to the Raptor 250 engine. A much better choice would be the old XR250R engine in my opinion,...a TRUE little brother to the 400EX that could fight with the Raptor 250.

Those are the ONLY models I've heard about in the past year or so. But with the ATV market the slowest in many years for Honda, it will depend on whether Honda introduces new models to heighten sales and brand awareness,...OR dont introduce anything at all and wait out the slow times.
Basically,........ a choice being "active" or "reactive". If the past decade is to be used as a measuring stick, I say they will be reactive to the market and sit on what they currently have for at least one more year....just as Yamaha chose to do this year by holding out a little while longer with the new YFZ.

 

As for this whole auto versus auto clutch debate,.... I find it pointless to argue about.

No ATV out there today making anything over 35HP would ever hold up in a 4 wheel drive ATV in a stuck situation over the long run.
And from the numerous Foreman 500s and Vinson 500 manual shifts Ive seen come in over the years with damaged trannies from getting in tough situations with big tires,...I would actually rate that number lower than 35HP. Especially on the Vinson.

These are not motorcycles with a 3" traction path on the rear tire, so no,... that story doesnt argue my point. Neither does the sport quads with 200HP Hayabusa engines in them racing in the sand.

It's about heavy dead weight, 4 wide wheels of traction, major torque, and an engine case and tranny not capable of handling the load.


It should also be noted that Honda did not throw the Hondamatic into the Rubicon and Rincon because it would be a cool feature. That was a side effect bonus, but not the reasoning it was primarliy chosen. The choice wasnt between manual or hondamatic. They were forced to decide between a hondamatic or CVT.
And so the Hondamatic was used because it's the only way they could keep the machine reliable and without copying everyone else who chose to go the CVT route.

 

hey recon - i too grew up with dirt bikes and manual 3-wheelers...200x to be exact. the problem i have with manual shifts on utilities is that my size 15 boot simply doesn't easily fit between the shifter and the full floor boards on the utilities. (BTW haven't seen many girls wearing size 15 boots!)

Good info Knowsalot - However, i hope honda brings it this year. I don't think they can totally blame the slow sales on the ecomony. People pay for quality - but they also want current technology.

 

Well, I think polaris did it because thats what they made at the time , it was probably cheapest for them to go CVT and they felt it was better.
They were the first to use it on 3wheelers and quads, and thats all they used untill the pred came along.
I started on a 1970s yamaha oil injected enduro, than an 86 quadsport 230, both manuals, loved em. Than got a rokon and than the polaris, torque converter / CVT
Love them both too, I have a 300ex now and love that as well. CVT is sick on a quad, espec a 400 polaris

 

The editorial (Dumbing Down the Sport) I am refering to appeared more than a decade ago, and every day out on the trail I see just how precisely prophetic it was! Happily, I have no need for anything bigger than my superb manual tranny Rancher...so it is fun to just sit back and laugh at the trends in monster utility design and marketing.....while everybody else parts with their hard earned money.

It would be nice if the Raptor 250 has forced Hondas hand. The 250EX isn't as sporty as it should be, and the 300EX has needed a makeover for a decade now (and it has always been to expensive for an entry level machine).

 

I'm with you on that one RR,... Honda has needed a better entry level sport quad for several years now. I just hope that if this ATV does indeed come out next Spring, that it has an engine,....or at least a lightweight chassis that can compete straight up with the Raptor250.

The biggest hurdle for Honda is not so much the engine as it is the weight penalties that exist right now with the 250EX or the 300EX when compared to the Raptor 250. The Raptor 250 and 300EX are actually putting out very close numbers in terms of horsepower....18 to 20 depending on who you ask for both machines.
It's the power to weight ratio that gives the Yamaha the edge. 60 lbs is an enormous difference on a sport quad.

As far as engines already familiar to us all, I think the only engine Honda has capable of this is the old XR250R engine. A CRF230 engine isnt going to be enough, and a CRF250R engine will make the quad way too costly. But who knows,...maybe they have an all new design on the table.

It also isn't far fetched to think that Honda might throw us all off and offer a 250EX style quad using the old Rancher 350 engine or maybe even the current 420 for that matter.
Never say never in Honda land unless it concerns a differential lock or a CVT type transmission. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: reconranger

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: kukerdan



Autos for little girls and beginners?











I hate when people say that..







</end quote></div>



Well then, mission accomplished!



There was a great editorial in one of the magazines many years ago, and it was about the "Dumbing Down of the Sport". In the early days, everybody riding a 3-wheeler or quad at least had previous dirt bike experience, so everybody could shift a manual just fine. Then, the manufacturers learned that if they threw an automatic on, they could sell quads to any mindless idiot and make lots of money doing it!</end quote></div>



It has nothing to do with skill!! its a luxury! I personally love my auto 07 Rubicon, Id love to go head to head with you in a mud hole, lets see you shift those gears while your trying to rock it out of a mud hole, or riding a deep water wheelie... i like not have 1-5... and thats it... I like my 1-5 high d-1, 1-5 high d-2, 1-5 high esp, 1-5 low D, and 1-5 low esp! counting your choise of 2wd or 4wd in all those modes, that is 50 different gear options to chose from, on the fly! how many you got? Thats what i thought!

 

Awesome great stupendous and a bunch of other generic refrecences to being excited and or flustered. Talkin about atv's should be fun kinda like id dont know "riding atv's"! It's always the same crap one giant pee pee contest.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]
Recon you wanna tell me how you like the ES on the 420 rancher and what do you mean prepared right?

 

<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Outof$



Getting older I decided to try the ES just to see what it was like. They are alot better then the earlier models and if you prepare them they are almost flawless.




Hey outof$ , this is what i meant how do you prepare it?

sorry recon, i still would like to hear more of what you have to say about the 420, considering you own one and know some stuff about it.


Thanks alot.

 

There is another post where the dad is trying to decide between the 250EX and Raptor 250. I pointed out to him the 50+ pound difference in weight, and also pointed out that while 50 pounds isn't much to some beer bellied redneck that rides an 800 pound ute, it sure is going to be a big deal to a 100 pound kid!