Biggest module test yet, at the drag strip
Jul 6, 2004 | 12:36 PM
#61
Pro Rider
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 403
Likes: 0
Biggest module test yet, at the drag strip
Hey Alltoys---some of us are willing and able to go to Radio Shack and peice a module together for $10. or so!!!
PLEASE TELL--- I love doing my own thing---just need a little knowledge.
PLEASE TELL--- I love doing my own thing---just need a little knowledge.
Jul 9, 2004 | 03:26 AM
#64
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,435
Likes: 0
Biggest module test yet, at the drag strip
Tonto,
At one time the Naber and Reds650 module were the better ones I believe I said that. These modules no matter who sells them hook up to the pink wire. The pink wire receives speed input from the speedo. The highest frequency produced by the speedo is around 550 HZ ok. Now the original one the one that started all this module stuff didn't have a pure clean wave sometimes the cdi had problems reading the input. As time went on other people decided to make them and increase the frequency, if I remember right the original Holeshot which came out after Naber and Reds650 was around 60HZ. Scott from DG at that time said on another forum that was all the cdi needed to advance the cdi to 28*. Nabers and Reds650 module were around 1100 HZ and I forgot one fabricator by the name of Kunytec are about the same. Then there was HL with their version they have pushed theirs to 3500 HZ the same with DG3. If DG on previous developments have said that a lower frequency is good then why raise it to 3500 HZ, ( oh well new improved and so on). Now there is another company who has manufactured a module I understand they are in development of a cdi for the Prairie and the VForce. Everybodys module hooks up to the pink wire which is a speed input there is no way a module can over clock the OEM cdi past 6500 rpm unless it is a mapping device and it would not I repeat would not hook up to the PINK WIRE. If anyone says that their frequency module holds 28* past 6500 rpm they are false claims period. If DG3's module or anyone elses could over clock the OEM cdi then why would it need a degree key???? Also if it can hold the full timing to 8500 rpm then why stop at 28* why does it not push to I don't know say, 33* just like the Dyna cdi. I am not sure about the DG3 whether it uses a triple 5 timer but the others do. It may have a chip but it is still a module a very good one but still a module. There has been enough static about the modules I still can't believe that everybody thinks a module and key can be better than a cdi???
OleManMoses, if one of the manufactures of these modules lets me, I will find a way of displaying the board and its components. Just a funny thing which is interesting, HL uses silicone to cover their board where everyone else uses epoxy( not hard to take out and see what is inside......LOL).
At one time the Naber and Reds650 module were the better ones I believe I said that. These modules no matter who sells them hook up to the pink wire. The pink wire receives speed input from the speedo. The highest frequency produced by the speedo is around 550 HZ ok. Now the original one the one that started all this module stuff didn't have a pure clean wave sometimes the cdi had problems reading the input. As time went on other people decided to make them and increase the frequency, if I remember right the original Holeshot which came out after Naber and Reds650 was around 60HZ. Scott from DG at that time said on another forum that was all the cdi needed to advance the cdi to 28*. Nabers and Reds650 module were around 1100 HZ and I forgot one fabricator by the name of Kunytec are about the same. Then there was HL with their version they have pushed theirs to 3500 HZ the same with DG3. If DG on previous developments have said that a lower frequency is good then why raise it to 3500 HZ, ( oh well new improved and so on). Now there is another company who has manufactured a module I understand they are in development of a cdi for the Prairie and the VForce. Everybodys module hooks up to the pink wire which is a speed input there is no way a module can over clock the OEM cdi past 6500 rpm unless it is a mapping device and it would not I repeat would not hook up to the PINK WIRE. If anyone says that their frequency module holds 28* past 6500 rpm they are false claims period. If DG3's module or anyone elses could over clock the OEM cdi then why would it need a degree key???? Also if it can hold the full timing to 8500 rpm then why stop at 28* why does it not push to I don't know say, 33* just like the Dyna cdi. I am not sure about the DG3 whether it uses a triple 5 timer but the others do. It may have a chip but it is still a module a very good one but still a module. There has been enough static about the modules I still can't believe that everybody thinks a module and key can be better than a cdi???
OleManMoses, if one of the manufactures of these modules lets me, I will find a way of displaying the board and its components. Just a funny thing which is interesting, HL uses silicone to cover their board where everyone else uses epoxy( not hard to take out and see what is inside......LOL).
Jul 9, 2004 | 08:08 AM
#65
Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 0
Biggest module test yet, at the drag strip
Originally posted by: NovaKaw650 - Hmm.... that should require both a speed sensor and RPM input to the CDI; the electronic genius's on the forum have always said that changing the high RPM timing map wasn't possible w/o somehow sending a false RPM reading back to the CDI, and then being able to process it. No module has this output.
I remain extremely sceptical of the DG3 claims. There must be an explaination posted somewhere on how a frequency modulator can change a pre-determined, RPM based timing map programmed into the igniter.
I remain extremely sceptical of the DG3 claims. There must be an explaination posted somewhere on how a frequency modulator can change a pre-determined, RPM based timing map programmed into the igniter.
Jul 9, 2004 | 11:29 AM
#66
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Biggest module test yet, at the drag strip
Just some FYI:
1. The Meter Unit aka "speedo" does not produce any speed based signal, it only receives it.
2. The Meter Unit will decode 550Hz as about 28MPH, roughly 5MPH per 100Hz.
3. The DG Holeshot used a frequency of 216Hz.
4. The HL Power Pak uses a frequency of 3150Hz.
5. The DG3 uses multiple outputs, none of which is the same as HL's, or 3500Hz.
6. The Speed Input Counter in the stock Igniter "overflows" every 2500Hz, therefore 3000Hz and 500Hz are decoded as the same value.
7. Most Silicones will etch circuit board traces over time because of the Acetone content.
8. The DG3 is not "555" based, it uses an Atmel RISC Processor, and the entire circuit is visible through the transparent encapsulant.
OleManMoses, check out figure 5 here: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/NE/NE555.pdf
Add a +5 volt regulator with some protection diodes and filtering capacitors and you will have a single frequency module.
I agree with Alltoy's statement: "If anyone says that their frequency module holds 28* past 6500 rpm they are false claims period."
But who said this?: "The modulators from Nabor and RED will hold full timeing to rev limiter at 7700 rpm where there is no drop off till you hit the limiter wall."
Answer: http://forums.atvconnection.com/mess...ighlight_key=y
The mis-information on this subject seems never ending....
The point to consider is this; Everyone has different priorities when evaluating a performance improvement purchase. It may be cost, convenience, dependability, etc. Some people won't buy anything that doesn't plug in, while others will not mind splitting their engine case to change rod bearings frequently in the quest for more power. Just remember that each person's comments will be biased in their own experiences.
1. The Meter Unit aka "speedo" does not produce any speed based signal, it only receives it.
2. The Meter Unit will decode 550Hz as about 28MPH, roughly 5MPH per 100Hz.
3. The DG Holeshot used a frequency of 216Hz.
4. The HL Power Pak uses a frequency of 3150Hz.
5. The DG3 uses multiple outputs, none of which is the same as HL's, or 3500Hz.
6. The Speed Input Counter in the stock Igniter "overflows" every 2500Hz, therefore 3000Hz and 500Hz are decoded as the same value.
7. Most Silicones will etch circuit board traces over time because of the Acetone content.
8. The DG3 is not "555" based, it uses an Atmel RISC Processor, and the entire circuit is visible through the transparent encapsulant.
OleManMoses, check out figure 5 here: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/NE/NE555.pdf
Add a +5 volt regulator with some protection diodes and filtering capacitors and you will have a single frequency module.
I agree with Alltoy's statement: "If anyone says that their frequency module holds 28* past 6500 rpm they are false claims period."
But who said this?: "The modulators from Nabor and RED will hold full timeing to rev limiter at 7700 rpm where there is no drop off till you hit the limiter wall."
Answer: http://forums.atvconnection.com/mess...ighlight_key=y
The mis-information on this subject seems never ending....
The point to consider is this; Everyone has different priorities when evaluating a performance improvement purchase. It may be cost, convenience, dependability, etc. Some people won't buy anything that doesn't plug in, while others will not mind splitting their engine case to change rod bearings frequently in the quest for more power. Just remember that each person's comments will be biased in their own experiences.
Jul 9, 2004 | 04:52 PM
#70
Pro Rider
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 0
Biggest module test yet, at the drag strip
Originally posted by: Zooom - Just some FYI:
1. The Meter Unit aka "speedo" does not produce any speed based signal, it only receives it.
2. The Meter Unit will decode 550Hz as about 28MPH, roughly 5MPH per 100Hz.
3. The DG Holeshot used a frequency of 216Hz.
4. The HL Power Pak uses a frequency of 3150Hz.
5. The DG3 uses multiple outputs, none of which is the same as HL's, or 3500Hz.
6. The Speed Input Counter in the stock Igniter "overflows" every 2500Hz, therefore 3000Hz and 500Hz are decoded as the same value.
7. Most Silicones will etch circuit board traces over time because of the Acetone content.
8. The DG3 is not "555" based, it uses an Atmel RISC Processor, and the entire circuit is visible through the transparent encapsulant.
OleManMoses, check out figure 5 here: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/NE/NE555.pdf
Add a +5 volt regulator with some protection diodes and filtering capacitors and you will have a single frequency module.
I agree with Alltoy's statement: "If anyone says that their frequency module holds 28* past 6500 rpm they are false claims period."
But who said this?: "The modulators from Nabor and RED will hold full timeing to rev limiter at 7700 rpm where there is no drop off till you hit the limiter wall."
Answer: http://forums.atvconnection.com/mess...ighlight_key=y
The mis-information on this subject seems never ending....
The point to consider is this; Everyone has different priorities when evaluating a performance improvement purchase. It may be cost, convenience, dependability, etc. Some people won't buy anything that doesn't plug in, while others will not mind splitting their engine case to change rod bearings frequently in the quest for more power. Just remember that each person's comments will be biased in their own experiences.
1. The Meter Unit aka "speedo" does not produce any speed based signal, it only receives it.
2. The Meter Unit will decode 550Hz as about 28MPH, roughly 5MPH per 100Hz.
3. The DG Holeshot used a frequency of 216Hz.
4. The HL Power Pak uses a frequency of 3150Hz.
5. The DG3 uses multiple outputs, none of which is the same as HL's, or 3500Hz.
6. The Speed Input Counter in the stock Igniter "overflows" every 2500Hz, therefore 3000Hz and 500Hz are decoded as the same value.
7. Most Silicones will etch circuit board traces over time because of the Acetone content.
8. The DG3 is not "555" based, it uses an Atmel RISC Processor, and the entire circuit is visible through the transparent encapsulant.
OleManMoses, check out figure 5 here: http://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/NE/NE555.pdf
Add a +5 volt regulator with some protection diodes and filtering capacitors and you will have a single frequency module.
I agree with Alltoy's statement: "If anyone says that their frequency module holds 28* past 6500 rpm they are false claims period."
But who said this?: "The modulators from Nabor and RED will hold full timeing to rev limiter at 7700 rpm where there is no drop off till you hit the limiter wall."
Answer: http://forums.atvconnection.com/mess...ighlight_key=y
The mis-information on this subject seems never ending....
The point to consider is this; Everyone has different priorities when evaluating a performance improvement purchase. It may be cost, convenience, dependability, etc. Some people won't buy anything that doesn't plug in, while others will not mind splitting their engine case to change rod bearings frequently in the quest for more power. Just remember that each person's comments will be biased in their own experiences.
But once again, no real answer to my question..........
What is the DG3 module doing differently that would cause it to work better than other modules. Yes, we know it puts out multiple signals, but what does that do for us?
