I am still holding to the fact presented by Mike at the strip........If NONE of the modules remove the top end retard including the DG3, and it seems Zooom stated so, then they ALL are the same in theory....meaning, that they fool the CDI off the speed sensor into jumping the timing to 28 right off idle, again 28 degrees is 28 degrees, no matter which module is doing it, they can't do anymore than this, am I the only one understanding this? This is why the DG3 didn't outperform the original Holeshot, It looked like ALL the modules were doing the SAME thing, with one brand SLIGHTLY out performing another, alot of varibles come into play like reaction time, traction etc. but I think Mike proved one thing, it looks like that NO module is SIGNIFICANTLY better than another, ......If they alll read off the speed sensor they can't be a whole lot different can they??????[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

 

So how exactly did you get the warranty unit? From the same shop? Maybe you could be so kind as to divulge the name of this shop, as Scott at Dyna was unable to find any record of any warranty units going anywhere near Vegas when I asked him about it. And he said he has the complete list of all warranty units that went out. It sounds as though if you did in fact get a replacement, your dealer just gave you another of the first batch of ignitions instead of the revised one you thought you were getting. And they have yet to contact Scott about any sort of replacement, which is VERY odd, at the very least. You'd think they would have contacted Dyna after the ignition failed?

But actually giving the name of the shop to Scott, would pretty quickly clear up any questions about what version of the ignition you had. That way your "opinion based on fact" could be based on CORRECT facts.

Brad

 

Hi Brads
Seems strange to me that after a mere 2 post you decide to attack me, perhaps you would like to divulge who you really are or are working for. Once again I will continue to give my real life experiences even if Bradster likes it or not. If you have a different opinion express it, that is what this and other forums are for. Stakk your reply makes a lot of sense to me I am very happy with my dg3 if you are happy with whatever you are using stick with it.
Pumpingpremium

 

Surely if you didn't have something to hide this would be a very easy question for you to answer? I am not attacking you, I am simply trying to find out WHAT you were using, since from your info posted so far you weren't using the revised Dyna module you claim you were. It's not that hard to answer where you got the ignition from, is it? You are displaying signs of paranoia. The world isn't out to get you, I am just interested in where you got your ignition from. It's really a simple question. The fact that you are working so hard to hide that is interesting, and coming up with cute nicknames for me isn't going to divert attention away from the fact that you still haven't answered that one simple question.

Brad <- who I really am

 

By the way I have been on 3-4 long hard rides (60-70 miles each) and my replacement Dyna hasn't kicked back once, the power is better than the old one.....One thing I noticed though is that this new one is like the stock one when it comes to starting, it takes 2-3 engine revoutions before it fires ,the old one would fire on the first but kick back every once in a while.....

 

Holeshots all work the same. The stock CDI has a pre-programmed timing map that includes low end timing retard (when the speed sensor is giving less than 60Hz), and the high end retard approaching the rev limiter.

You can spoof the CDI with a 555 timer or fancy microprocessing, but no matter how it's done, it just needs give the CDI a frequency greater than 60Hz. Anything more is a waste of time, since the CDI just takes it as a yes/no decision (retard timing/don't retard timing).

You can't overclock the CDI, you can't do anything magical with it. Mitsubishi wrote the software, and there is no backdoor..... So no matter which module you buy or how the manufacturer does it, you'll get the same performance. No module will every give you full timing to redline..... You need a new CDI to fix that.


Keep in mind this is the chronological process:

1a) Hole shot modules came out. Nabor, DG, Kunytec, and many more.
1b) Offset key to advance the timing
2) Dyna CDI (no longer need the key or a module)
3) DG3 with multiple steps.... see my comment above.

Remember way back when when DG was working on the unlimiter and then maybe a CDI, but it never happened? Well, they didn't need to, since they were the dominating player in the market. Now with the Dyna CDI, they had to do something, so they popped out the DG3. But, no matter how many blinky lights you put on it, it is still a glorified holeshot, and still falls under the criteria I listed above.....


So it's no use causing a big flame war in this thread, since the pink wire isn't magically, it just needs a frequency greater than 60Hz to fix the low end timing retard. You don't need multiple timing steps based on speed (that's what the world calls clever marketing -- just like the $0.99 stuff.... seems cheaper than a buck, so you buy it).

If you want to fix the grunt at the low end, buy a module (doesn't matter who, since they are all the same). If you want more grunt throughout the powerband, put in an offset key. If you want to fix everything, replace the CDI. By the time you've did the key and the module, you could have bought a CDI.

 

DG3 $139
Degree key $20

The above doesnt include the 10% discount to previous DG module owners.

OEM gaskets for water pump and side cover $15 tax included
Mobil 1 MX4T oil $16

This is expensive oil and some might use Permatex for the gaskets. $3 for permatex and $5 for oil.

If you have to buy anitfreeze that around $8 a gallon. Most people already have some.

Highest cost for DG3 and degree key is $198

Least cost for DG3 and degree key is $151

Dynatek cdi is $247.

You could almost save $100 if you went the least route. Even going the highest route you could still save around $50. And never worry about kickback.

 

True, but you still have:
1) Belt limp mode problems.
2) High RPM timing retard, and an 8k rev limiter

Doesn't matter what the DG3 is "promising", the stock CDI is still going to choke at high RPM, just like it did without the DG3 or any other holeshot. Creative marketing is a clever tool for generating business, but misleading people is flat out dirty.....

I find it interesting they give a 10% discount to previous customers.... You buy one holeshot for $110, they sell you another "special" one for $117, both operate a little differently, but both give the exact same results..... See... That's clever marketing! But promising huge benefits is flat out dirty.....


Oh well, my point is it doesn't matter which module to connect to the "magical" pink wire. As long as it gives the CDI >60Hz, you'll get the same results. But if you want power to the stock rev limiter (or beyond), you have to do what Alltoys says, and swap the CDI.

 

80% of the people wouldn't be willing to do this work themselves - add $100 shop time plus materials.

Originally posted by Wires -
Can't agree with that; I had the original module out of Quebec, it fooled the CDI out of the reverse map and created great bottom-end power , but caused a large loss on the top-end. 3-4mph difference on the top speed between the module and the speed sensor, and longer to get there.

 

That could be something to do with having the reverse override always on. I should try that... right now a ty-rap permanently disables my reverse map! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I'm saying that if you buy a DG, DG3, Kunytec, or whatever, and they connect to the pink wire (lets exclude the reverse situation), you'll get the same performance. I've taken a frequency generator, connected it to the pink wire going to the CDI. I then took a scope, connected one channel to the crank sensor, and another to a coil wire. On the scope, you can see the pulse for the ignition coil, and it happens before the crank sensor (hence the advanced timing -- it's firing before TDC is reached). Ok, I can crank the frequency generator up and down, and as you pass through the 60 Hz area (which is 4MPH or 7 KPH or around there), then the timing advances and retards (via a step jump) of about 16 degrees. Note: You have to have some RPM before this occurs. So any manufacturer claiming easier starts with a holeshot are telling you BS. Below 60 Hz (so driving slow) it retards by 16 degrees. Above that, it advances by 16 degrees to the standard map of 5 degrees at 1100 RPM to 28 degrees at 5500 RPM.

Now, if you rev up the engine to say 5000 RPM or 8000 RPM, or whatever, and play with the frequency going into the CDI, the timing does not change.

Alltoys is right. You can go to Rat Shack, pick up $10 worth of parts, and make a crude version of it, and it'll work. The majority of them are simple 555 timer circuits, operating in 50% duty cycle mode, at a frequency above 60Hz (pick greater than 100Hz to be safe), and in astable mode. If you want to try it out, and prove me wrong, do to this site, and whip one up:
http://www.priory.bromley.sch.uk/stu...555astable.asp

It probably won't be as robust as the holeshots (the circuit doesn't incorporate and protection or anything like that), but it'll work. Oh yeh, you need to run it off 5 Volts, since that's what the pink wire needs (so power it off of 3 - AA Alkaline batteries -- don't use rechargables, since they don't have as much voltage).