Still kicking this old post around?

Here is some more FYI for "wires":

1. The stock rev limiter is higher than 8k.
2. The stock advance reaches 28 degrees long before 5500RPM
3. The stock advance does not begin to decrease at 5500RPM.
4. The stock Igniter (cdi to the uniformed), can be "clocked" higher by changing the processor's crystal. You can add top end timing and increase the rev limit values at the expense of an offset in mid range power.
5. You don't have to buy the Dyna or use wire ties to defeat the reverse overide or "belt limp mode". Just study the schematic and you will see how.
6. The reverse map is more than 16 degrees less than the standard map (excluding the Brute Force).
7. The "step function" statement is "half" false, which is a very important oversight.............hint, hint.

Chronology?:

1. Module from Canada reportably adds low end power, but drops terminal speed.
2. DG Holeshot is released which produces large gains on low end power AND solves the terminal speed problem.
3. Nabor and RED Module (Canada) is promoted by Alltoys (Canada) as holding full 28 degrees of timing to the rev limiter.
4. M.S.D. semi-officially cans the Prairie Igniter R&D project due to unknown issues.
5. DG Unlimiter (Phase shifting device) is never released due to reliability issues when beta tested on a small number of different ATV's, and after doing performance/cost analysis studies.
6. Highlifter releases "ICM" touting it as all a different circuit (555 timer) with mid range power boost.
7. Dyna releases their Igniter, with some customers complaining of reliability issues and "kick-backs".
8. DG releases DG3 using "copy resistant" technology and some new techniques studied in prior R&D.
9. Another new company based in Calgary, Canada makes yet another version of the same old module, bringing the total of manufacturers of modules to no less than eight or so; Red (Dale), Freedom Cycle (same)?, DG, Nabor, Kunytec, Highlifter, Some uP tech person on ATV Connection before he got in trouble, and now the new company in Calgary, Canada.

All this is really beating a dead horse. The gain in low end power is always the most noticable over the gain above that, with any of these devices. The initial talk about the pre-production Prairie 650 Igniters simply plugging in and allowing 80MPH top ends were exaggerated at best. Much more than timing was done to slow down the Prairie 650 before it was released. With top end timing, you can gain 2-3 MPH on a stock quad, but that is quite expensive. An offset key and a used V-Force Igniter will make the Prairie due the same thing, with no reliability problems, but it must be wired in. In my opinion, the Prairie platform is not exactly ideal for use as a pure drag racer or 80MPH+ speeds anyway, and will eventually border on the side of dangerous. If speed is in your blood, why not move on to the superbikes. You get the highest power-to-weight ratio of any production wheeled vehicle in stock form, and a chassis design for speeds well over 150MPH. Every design has its upper limits which can only be exceeded safetly after doing extension mods, remember ATV's are designed for wide range usage and they do that quite well.

I'll leave you with some trivia for the Igniter experts out there. This is for the 21119-0004 series (Infamous three connector version).

1. The Igniter detects the 2wd/4wd condition. What does it use this information for?

2. The Igniter detects when you activate the brakes. What does it use this information for?

P.S. Sorry, I have no prizes to give away.

 

Again ZOOM... awesome info...

On my '02 Prairie with the stock ( 2 plug ) ignitor, & with extensive internal mods, I hit hard rev limit at between 8450 - 8500 rpm, as witnessed while riding ( not on jack stands ), with a Daytona Digital tach...

as far as over driving the chassis... OH YA... but I still love it...

guessing on your trivia...

Ignitor detects 2 X 4 / 4 X 4 condition, to feed 4 x 4 / KBEC controller ... perhaps the timing maps are different between 4 X 4 & 2 X 4 , & high / low range ???

Ignitor detects brake activation, to feed 4 x 4 / KBEC contoller... to set & monitor position of the KBEC actuator ???

just guess's, as I'm sure the correct answers are more complex...

 

"Nabor and RED Module (Canada) is promoted by Alltoys (Canada) as holding full 28 degrees of timing to the rev limiter?" Zooom, I went through the link you had posted and couldn't find where Alltoys had made this statement. Clarification, please.

I had the original "Freedom" module that was manufactured in Quebec; mid/top-end power loss. reds650 built a new frequency module that worked much better (that's what I use now), I believe he had that before DG came out with the Holeshot.

I agree that more was done to restrict the Prairies, not just ignition related. You can't take the best advantage of the Dyna igniter w/o changing the cam timing.

Zooom - again, lots of info (you obviously know this unit inside and out, and for good reason), but no answers. How do the multiple frequency outputs optimize the stock igniter timing curve?
And what's your opinion about the Ross650 post that states "a several quad length win in 300ft over an identical Holeshot equipped Prairie? Is this what you expect, or are there other factors/errors at work in that particular example? I do a little drag racing, and it takes considerable work to develop a several quad length lead over 300ft. Would you agree that if I changed to a DG3 module from my current module, I would see a several quad length increase over 300ft, as Ross650 has said?

 

From your inside knowledge of the DG processes, would it be correct to guess you are involved in their design? I guess that would explain why you quickly brought up the problems of the early version of the Dyna module, and failed to add to your list that they produced a revised cdi that seems to have resolved the issues*.

Brad

* resolved the issues, not counting one unverified case where a person claims to have had problems with the rev 2, but was not on the receiving list for rev 2, nor was anyone in the town he claimed to have gotten the cdi from. Simply posting the name of the place he purchased the ignition would be enough to answer the questions. But the person seems to be afraid to do this for unknown reasons, after claiming he is being attacked? I suspect he is too busy at this site to further add to this thread: http://zapatopi.net/afdb.html

 

Zooom you are impressive man, keep up the good work. I will take a stab at who you are or at least where you work. Since you are from Cypress Ca. my money says you are somehow involved with Kawasaki Motors? What have I won lol
Pumpingpremium

 

Just to throw my 2 pennies in, I purchased a modulator from red650 prior to DG releasing theirs on the market.

 

MY stab would be dgrtech aka prairie633 aka zooom

try putting a profile in next time
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]

 

You have won the opportunity to reread his post where he says "Sorry, I have no prizes"

So did you figure out who sold you that ignition yet? Or are you still too paranoid/delusional to answer? The only reason you could have for NOT saying where you got it, is that you never had one. I am not accusing you of that, but your silence is making a much bigger statement to that effect than I could. Simply telling where you bought it would make it very easy for Dynatek to trace it back, verify which version you had, and hopefully find exactly what the problem was with it. There is no hidden agenda for finding out where you got it, so no need for you to be paranoid about that. With so many of your relatively few posts being about Dyna bashing, you would think that you would want to prove that you actually did have the ignition.

Brad

 

Hi Bradster
I understood there were no prizes it was a joke but of course you would need a sense of humor to realize that. Didn't you see the lol at the end of the sentence? in case you didnt know that means laugh out loud. You are also wrong that I have only bashed the Dyna ignitor I stated that it appears they have there kick back issues resolved but of course you choose to ignore that statement. Where I buy my parts and accessories is none of your business or anyone elses period. You are obviously working for Dyna or are somehow connected. Your post here are only about this issue and myself so it is not to hard to figure out. Now I will go about my way with your permission and will continue to answer the post that I choose to but I am sure you will not be able to leave it alone. Have a nice day
Pumping premium

 

That is funny that you accuse me of not being man enough, when all you do is change the subject, go silent every time I ask you where you got the ignition you have been bashing, or funnier still, come up with cute names for me. Are you a girl, or a guy that comes up with cute names for lots of guys? I couldn't tell from your name. You wouldn't even respond to PMs from Scott, and are avoiding any answering this very simple question, instead letting it draw out because you haven't been man enough to answer.

Admit I work for Dyna? I never denied working for Dyna. I have been designing offroad ignitions for them for years now, although I did not design the one on the Prairie. Had you asked if I worked for Dyna before, I would have told you. Instead you made some sort of conspiratorial comment about me being Scott, which showed me exactly how irrational you are. Now your turn. Where did you get the ignition from?

Brad