Kawasaki New Monster?
#1
09-08-2000, 08:59 AM
Join Date: Aug 2000
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#2
09-08-2000, 02:16 PM
The inside information I have from a guy who races GNCC for a local Kawasaki dealer is that the new monster 4x4 will be powered by a reworked Vulcan 800 V-twin street bike engine.
Independent rear suspension was mentioned as a possibility, but was not a certainty, at the time I talked with him in early June.
Army Man
Independent rear suspension was mentioned as a possibility, but was not a certainty, at the time I talked with him in early June.
Army Man
#3
09-08-2000, 04:40 PM
#5
09-10-2000, 11:30 AM
Sprocket,
While another utility bike (regardless of manufacturer) may be a yawner to you, the reality of the marketplace is that sport bikes only comprise about 15% of all sales. Utes, and now "sport utes", outsell sport bikes 5 to 1.
So yawn away if you must, but know that the ubiquitous utility bike does more things for more buyers than all other machines put together. Also note that when your 2WD crotch-rocket gets stuck in the mud, it will be a 4WD ute with a winch that saves your bacon. I know this from first-hand experience having personally pulled more than a few 2WD sporters from the mud at Cochranton (the world's largest poker run with nearly 8000 bikes on the last go around) and Salamanca.
Kawasaki reputedly has a KX250 based sport bike under development to fill that hole in their product line. But with the proliferation of big-bore utes from all other major manufacturers, they would be foolish indeed to ignore the utility segment of the market which produces the largest revenue stream (though I will grant they have been SLOW on the uptake).
Allow me to refresh your memory with a little automotive history. Ninety years ago in the eary part of the 20th Century it was not the Hispano-Suiza (an early sports car and the crotch-rocket of its day) that moved America and the World out of the horse-and-buggy era, but the lowly utilitarian Model T Ford.
So in summation, and in the lexicon of today's youth, Utes rule, man!!!
Army Man
While another utility bike (regardless of manufacturer) may be a yawner to you, the reality of the marketplace is that sport bikes only comprise about 15% of all sales. Utes, and now "sport utes", outsell sport bikes 5 to 1.
So yawn away if you must, but know that the ubiquitous utility bike does more things for more buyers than all other machines put together. Also note that when your 2WD crotch-rocket gets stuck in the mud, it will be a 4WD ute with a winch that saves your bacon. I know this from first-hand experience having personally pulled more than a few 2WD sporters from the mud at Cochranton (the world's largest poker run with nearly 8000 bikes on the last go around) and Salamanca.
Kawasaki reputedly has a KX250 based sport bike under development to fill that hole in their product line. But with the proliferation of big-bore utes from all other major manufacturers, they would be foolish indeed to ignore the utility segment of the market which produces the largest revenue stream (though I will grant they have been SLOW on the uptake).
Allow me to refresh your memory with a little automotive history. Ninety years ago in the eary part of the 20th Century it was not the Hispano-Suiza (an early sports car and the crotch-rocket of its day) that moved America and the World out of the horse-and-buggy era, but the lowly utilitarian Model T Ford.
So in summation, and in the lexicon of today's youth, Utes rule, man!!!
Army Man
#7
09-12-2000, 05:23 PM
Army Man,
You have taken offence to my yawn when none was meant. Let me explain…
Even though the sport bike market comprises only 15% of the market, it is a lucrative market. And Kawasaki is loosing out on this share by not introducing a new Sport Bike. How much longer can they continue to market the Mojave as a “high performance bike” when the competition is presenting machines like the 400EX and the Raptor? Yes I know, there have been TONS of rumors that they are developing a new sport bike, but for the most part they have been just that, rumors. They ARE being foolish. They are being foolish by ignoring the Sport bike market.
I was not diss’ing utility bikes. I will say this though, while they might be able to “save my bacon” by pulling me out of a mud hole, I certainly would not want to run one on a MX track. Each bike has its place. Looking at the number of bikes available from all of the manufactures there are simply more utility bikes to choose from. So I can’t get excited about the introduction of ANOTHER utility bike from Kawasaki, when they are neglecting the high performance segment.
So, I’m sorry if you were offended by my yawn, but I stand by it. By the way, I would suggest that the lowly utilitarian Model T Ford was probably a tad bit more affordable than the Hispano-Suiza, something you cannot say about some of the new utility bikes…
You have taken offence to my yawn when none was meant. Let me explain…
Even though the sport bike market comprises only 15% of the market, it is a lucrative market. And Kawasaki is loosing out on this share by not introducing a new Sport Bike. How much longer can they continue to market the Mojave as a “high performance bike” when the competition is presenting machines like the 400EX and the Raptor? Yes I know, there have been TONS of rumors that they are developing a new sport bike, but for the most part they have been just that, rumors. They ARE being foolish. They are being foolish by ignoring the Sport bike market.
I was not diss’ing utility bikes. I will say this though, while they might be able to “save my bacon” by pulling me out of a mud hole, I certainly would not want to run one on a MX track. Each bike has its place. Looking at the number of bikes available from all of the manufactures there are simply more utility bikes to choose from. So I can’t get excited about the introduction of ANOTHER utility bike from Kawasaki, when they are neglecting the high performance segment.
So, I’m sorry if you were offended by my yawn, but I stand by it. By the way, I would suggest that the lowly utilitarian Model T Ford was probably a tad bit more affordable than the Hispano-Suiza, something you cannot say about some of the new utility bikes…
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#8
09-13-2000, 12:57 PM
Sprocket,
No offense was taken at your original post, though it did appear to be intentionally provocative, nor did I consider you to be “diss’ing” utility bikes. My purpose in responding was to cast some light on market demographics.
The high performance sport bike market is indeed important, in that success in campaigning a high performance model on the racetrack tends to rub off across product lines. No more classic example of this can be found than Dick Mann’s 1970 Daytona 200 win aboard a then new Honda CB750-4. The publicity generated by that win sold more Honda CB350s than it did CB750s.
However, I think that you overestimate the profitability of sport bikes as compared to other models. The reality of the situation is that whether we are talking about cars (Chevy Corvette), trucks (Ford SVT Lightning), motorcycles (Honda CB1100XX Blackbird), or quads (Yamaha Raptor), the high performance models exist because of, and remain affordable because of, the revenue stream generated by the work-a-day models. If the high performance models had to exist based solely on the revenue their sales generated, then their price would be much, much higher. A Lamborghini Countach is a better sports car that a Chevy Corvette, but it ain’t 5 times better ($250K vs. $50K). Chevy can sell the Corvette for “only” $50K because for every ‘Vette they sell, they sell dozens of Luminas and Impalas. The last I looked, there were no Lamborghini “Metros” to offset the development and production costs of the Countach.
Things are not terribly different in the high performance ATV world. Honda introduced one new high performance model, the 400EX, and three new utility models, the Recon, the Rancher, and the Rubicon. Yamaha introduced one new high performance model, the Raptor, and one new utility model, the Bear Tracker while completely revamping the Big Bear, Kodiak, and Grizzly. This trend of new model development which favors the utility side of things clearly illustrates that the companies themselves believe their bread-and-butter sales lie with the utility segment of the market. Yes, it is nice to skim a little cream with a new sport bike, but that cream only exists by virtue of the core market utility bikes.
I will readily grant that Kawasaki has lagged far behind the other Japanese manufacturers in introducing new models after the expiration of the “Consent Decree”. In fact, I would have to characterize the Kawasaki ATV product development group as having been in a trance for the last several years. As you correctly point out, the Mojave is not a cutting edge sport bike. It was not really competitive on the day it was introduced eleven years ago, and with the introduction of the 400EX and now the Raptor, it is a Folsom Point in a world of cruise missiles.
From the standpoint of affordability, yes the Model T Ford was a “tad” more affordable than the Hispano-Suiza. But this was at a time when virtually any automobile was considered a rich man’s toy. The change wrought by the Model T is still felt today regardless of where it appeared on the affordability scale.
If you look at today’s market, the parallels between automotive sporters and utilities and quadromotive (I think I coined a new word) sporters and utilities are quite similar. Generally speaking, the base model utility vehicles are less expensive than sporters, and the upscale utility vehicles are on par with the sporters. A Honda Recon costs less than a 400EX, and a Rubicon costs more than 400EX. A Chevy Impala costs less than a Corvette, and a loaded Suburban costs about the same as a Corvette.
I do not have any profitability figures for Chevy’s Corvette, but last year when Ford introduced their monster SUV, the Excursion, Car & Driver Magazine calculated Ford’s profit per Excursion at $17K. Chevy is certainly making some profit on their Corvette, but I doubt it approaches $17K.
I have long been a vocal critic of Kawasaki’s somnambulant product development efforts. Beginning over five years ago, well before any of today’s 500+cc big-bores appeared, I lobbied Kawasaki to skip the 500cc class and go straight to a 650. I posted those letters to Kawasaki here on this forum (the old version) for all to see and comment on. Not surprisingly, I received no response from Kawasaki. What did surprise me was that I received little response here in this forum. At the time the largest utility quad was a 400, I proposed a 650 and no one bestirred themselves to respond. Two years later when Yamaha announced the 600cc Grizzly, people drooled all over themselves. I can only conclude that just like Leonardo (Da Vinci not DiCaprio), I was ahead of my time.
While my imploring letters had no effect, it does seem as if the kick in the pants from the competition has awakened the Rip van Winkles at Team Green. Kawasaki desperately needs a killer big-bore utility quad, a hot-rock sport quad, and what no one else has mentioned, an affordable, strong performing mini quad for the kids.
Nobody is talking much about it because the ATV media focus is mostly on the Raptor right now, but the “kid-quad” market is growing by leaps and bounds. Several Chinese firms have brought nice inexpensive mini-quads to market, especially E-Ton. Even Polaris has a 90cc “Sportsman” in the works for the younger set. Kawasaki would do well to consider adding a 50cc, and or 90cc, mini-quad to the product development mix.
They’ve been hanging fire for long enough, so here’s hoping for some fireworks from Team Green!
Army Man
No offense was taken at your original post, though it did appear to be intentionally provocative, nor did I consider you to be “diss’ing” utility bikes. My purpose in responding was to cast some light on market demographics.
The high performance sport bike market is indeed important, in that success in campaigning a high performance model on the racetrack tends to rub off across product lines. No more classic example of this can be found than Dick Mann’s 1970 Daytona 200 win aboard a then new Honda CB750-4. The publicity generated by that win sold more Honda CB350s than it did CB750s.
However, I think that you overestimate the profitability of sport bikes as compared to other models. The reality of the situation is that whether we are talking about cars (Chevy Corvette), trucks (Ford SVT Lightning), motorcycles (Honda CB1100XX Blackbird), or quads (Yamaha Raptor), the high performance models exist because of, and remain affordable because of, the revenue stream generated by the work-a-day models. If the high performance models had to exist based solely on the revenue their sales generated, then their price would be much, much higher. A Lamborghini Countach is a better sports car that a Chevy Corvette, but it ain’t 5 times better ($250K vs. $50K). Chevy can sell the Corvette for “only” $50K because for every ‘Vette they sell, they sell dozens of Luminas and Impalas. The last I looked, there were no Lamborghini “Metros” to offset the development and production costs of the Countach.
Things are not terribly different in the high performance ATV world. Honda introduced one new high performance model, the 400EX, and three new utility models, the Recon, the Rancher, and the Rubicon. Yamaha introduced one new high performance model, the Raptor, and one new utility model, the Bear Tracker while completely revamping the Big Bear, Kodiak, and Grizzly. This trend of new model development which favors the utility side of things clearly illustrates that the companies themselves believe their bread-and-butter sales lie with the utility segment of the market. Yes, it is nice to skim a little cream with a new sport bike, but that cream only exists by virtue of the core market utility bikes.
I will readily grant that Kawasaki has lagged far behind the other Japanese manufacturers in introducing new models after the expiration of the “Consent Decree”. In fact, I would have to characterize the Kawasaki ATV product development group as having been in a trance for the last several years. As you correctly point out, the Mojave is not a cutting edge sport bike. It was not really competitive on the day it was introduced eleven years ago, and with the introduction of the 400EX and now the Raptor, it is a Folsom Point in a world of cruise missiles.
From the standpoint of affordability, yes the Model T Ford was a “tad” more affordable than the Hispano-Suiza. But this was at a time when virtually any automobile was considered a rich man’s toy. The change wrought by the Model T is still felt today regardless of where it appeared on the affordability scale.
If you look at today’s market, the parallels between automotive sporters and utilities and quadromotive (I think I coined a new word) sporters and utilities are quite similar. Generally speaking, the base model utility vehicles are less expensive than sporters, and the upscale utility vehicles are on par with the sporters. A Honda Recon costs less than a 400EX, and a Rubicon costs more than 400EX. A Chevy Impala costs less than a Corvette, and a loaded Suburban costs about the same as a Corvette.
I do not have any profitability figures for Chevy’s Corvette, but last year when Ford introduced their monster SUV, the Excursion, Car & Driver Magazine calculated Ford’s profit per Excursion at $17K. Chevy is certainly making some profit on their Corvette, but I doubt it approaches $17K.
I have long been a vocal critic of Kawasaki’s somnambulant product development efforts. Beginning over five years ago, well before any of today’s 500+cc big-bores appeared, I lobbied Kawasaki to skip the 500cc class and go straight to a 650. I posted those letters to Kawasaki here on this forum (the old version) for all to see and comment on. Not surprisingly, I received no response from Kawasaki. What did surprise me was that I received little response here in this forum. At the time the largest utility quad was a 400, I proposed a 650 and no one bestirred themselves to respond. Two years later when Yamaha announced the 600cc Grizzly, people drooled all over themselves. I can only conclude that just like Leonardo (Da Vinci not DiCaprio), I was ahead of my time.
While my imploring letters had no effect, it does seem as if the kick in the pants from the competition has awakened the Rip van Winkles at Team Green. Kawasaki desperately needs a killer big-bore utility quad, a hot-rock sport quad, and what no one else has mentioned, an affordable, strong performing mini quad for the kids.
Nobody is talking much about it because the ATV media focus is mostly on the Raptor right now, but the “kid-quad” market is growing by leaps and bounds. Several Chinese firms have brought nice inexpensive mini-quads to market, especially E-Ton. Even Polaris has a 90cc “Sportsman” in the works for the younger set. Kawasaki would do well to consider adding a 50cc, and or 90cc, mini-quad to the product development mix.
They’ve been hanging fire for long enough, so here’s hoping for some fireworks from Team Green!
Army Man
#10
09-18-2000, 11:26 AM
