13-yr old Boy Killed...
Feb 17, 2007 | 10:16 PM
#31
Pro Rider
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 302
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13-yr old Boy Killed...
[quote]
Originally posted by: leswind
An orginized riding area sounds great!!! Add in ATV training, rentals maybe a shop. Check to see if the local riding clubs are intrested maybe grants are available.
Don't let others discourge you if you are intrested at least check it out.
i live in long island out here their is no riding clubs. training, rentals and shop we were thinking about it too the only thing is we cant come to a finail decision on what company to work with on getting quads to rent and what to call our bisness lol. thanks for the postive imput all of my dads friends dont ride atvs and think were crazy.
Originally posted by: leswind
An orginized riding area sounds great!!! Add in ATV training, rentals maybe a shop. Check to see if the local riding clubs are intrested maybe grants are available.
Don't let others discourge you if you are intrested at least check it out.
i live in long island out here their is no riding clubs. training, rentals and shop we were thinking about it too the only thing is we cant come to a finail decision on what company to work with on getting quads to rent and what to call our bisness lol. thanks for the postive imput all of my dads friends dont ride atvs and think were crazy.
Feb 17, 2007 | 10:32 PM
#32
Trailblazer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
13-yr old Boy Killed...
Originally posted by: MikeCamp
1) I don't see any mention of blaming the land owner.
2) Having insurance protects "you" the land owner - You should have it. I don't think the words "jackpot the legal system" and losing a life go hand in hand. If you lost your son or daughters life on someone else's property I'm sure you would go the legal route to see if the proper legal devices were in place to prevent such an occurrence. If they were not, I am sure your own lawyers would want you to be compensated for your loss....still it's ..... VERY VERY far from the "jackpot". I sure hope you don't think the parents in this case would be happy with a lump of cash over having their son back. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]
3) Kids are kids and don't always think or do what their parents tell them to do.... if you think they all do then you're living on another planet. Bottom line - Right or Wrong.... kids will still do things they are not supposed to do. To be honest, there are much worse "Criminals" out there than some 13 year old riding his dirtbike on Joe Blow's land. No matter if he was tresspassing or not... it's a tragedy
Originally posted by: CaptainQuint
A. Cable is a much less expensive than building a gate that you would find acceptable.
B. I don't see any of those trespassing on my land donating to the "buy captain quint better gates fund". On the contrary I see them causing damage and cutting fences and damaging the gates and fencing I do have.
C. Property owners indeed put up gates to deter idiots who fail to understand to concept of private property. We also have to carry multi million dollar liability insurance policies in case some idiot is trespassing and runs into said gate and decapitates himself and his grieving family decides to hire larry H lawyer, pull the handle, and attempt the jackpot the legal system. I don't see anyone contributing to those premiums either.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the mentality that it is all well and good for people to trespass and ride all over private property and if someone gets killed doing so it's the land owners fault. You weren't suppose to be there. If you weren't riding were you shouldn't have been you wouldn't have been injured or killed. Too many times parents get their kid an ATV or dirt bike with no place to ride and turn them loose. They trespass and cause damage and make all ATVers look bad. They end up getting killed running into a gate and then it's the landowners fault because they were trespassing and couldn't see a gate. It's the parents who are fault. They bought the kid the ATV or dirtbike with no place to ride. They let them operate it unsupervised. They let them trespass. They have no body else to blame when they walk past that empty bedroom but themselves. They were the neglectful parents.
Frankly I'm sick to death of the blame game and the crocodile tears for criminals trespassing and getting hurt and blaming others for it.
Now this case may be something else entirely. This kid may have been on private property with permission and if so it is a tragedy and I do feel for his parents and family.
In the end remember, don't trespass and get permission before messing around on private property. That means contacting the owner directly. Not just "everyone rides there". Contact the owner and ask them if you may ride there. Don't know who owns it? Go to the county offices and locate a plat map and find out. Can't find the owner? Stay out.
A. Cable is a much less expensive than building a gate that you would find acceptable.
B. I don't see any of those trespassing on my land donating to the "buy captain quint better gates fund". On the contrary I see them causing damage and cutting fences and damaging the gates and fencing I do have.
C. Property owners indeed put up gates to deter idiots who fail to understand to concept of private property. We also have to carry multi million dollar liability insurance policies in case some idiot is trespassing and runs into said gate and decapitates himself and his grieving family decides to hire larry H lawyer, pull the handle, and attempt the jackpot the legal system. I don't see anyone contributing to those premiums either.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the mentality that it is all well and good for people to trespass and ride all over private property and if someone gets killed doing so it's the land owners fault. You weren't suppose to be there. If you weren't riding were you shouldn't have been you wouldn't have been injured or killed. Too many times parents get their kid an ATV or dirt bike with no place to ride and turn them loose. They trespass and cause damage and make all ATVers look bad. They end up getting killed running into a gate and then it's the landowners fault because they were trespassing and couldn't see a gate. It's the parents who are fault. They bought the kid the ATV or dirtbike with no place to ride. They let them operate it unsupervised. They let them trespass. They have no body else to blame when they walk past that empty bedroom but themselves. They were the neglectful parents.
Frankly I'm sick to death of the blame game and the crocodile tears for criminals trespassing and getting hurt and blaming others for it.
Now this case may be something else entirely. This kid may have been on private property with permission and if so it is a tragedy and I do feel for his parents and family.
In the end remember, don't trespass and get permission before messing around on private property. That means contacting the owner directly. Not just "everyone rides there". Contact the owner and ask them if you may ride there. Don't know who owns it? Go to the county offices and locate a plat map and find out. Can't find the owner? Stay out.
1) I don't see any mention of blaming the land owner.
2) Having insurance protects "you" the land owner - You should have it. I don't think the words "jackpot the legal system" and losing a life go hand in hand. If you lost your son or daughters life on someone else's property I'm sure you would go the legal route to see if the proper legal devices were in place to prevent such an occurrence. If they were not, I am sure your own lawyers would want you to be compensated for your loss....still it's ..... VERY VERY far from the "jackpot". I sure hope you don't think the parents in this case would be happy with a lump of cash over having their son back. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]
3) Kids are kids and don't always think or do what their parents tell them to do.... if you think they all do then you're living on another planet. Bottom line - Right or Wrong.... kids will still do things they are not supposed to do. To be honest, there are much worse "Criminals" out there than some 13 year old riding his dirtbike on Joe Blow's land. No matter if he was tresspassing or not... it's a tragedy
I agree that death is a harsh punishment but certainly the property owner did not have capitation in mind when he built the fence. No property owner can protect idiots from trespassing on their land and hurting or killing themselves. If somebody wants to hurt themselves on private land, I'm sure there are hundreds of ways to accomplish it. properyt owner can not "yellow tape" his whole fricking property so stupid people don't hurt themselves!
I agree with an earlier poster. This tragic event has 100% to do with the parents. If they are going to provide their kid a dirtbike then they should make sure he has a legal and proper place to ride. Take him on the weekends, holidays and whatever, and don't let him ride whenever he feels like it. I did not freely ride my dirtbike until I was over 18 and I always went where I was supposed to go.
You can't protect stupid people from themselves.
Feb 18, 2007 | 01:56 PM
#34
Range Rover
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
13-yr old Boy Killed...
After reading this thread you shure can tell who owns property and who doesnt. I think the person riding should know about the area before he or she ride there. Its just like hunting you know what zones are legal and zones are game refuge. Im also shure the cable didnt hang its self so it must of had a post or fence on each side.
Also salfromcal this makes you made enuff to want to kick his azz. Arnt you the one that was riding to fast and on the asphalt roads and ran into a car. Does that make you want to kick everybodys azz that drives a car. Wait untill you own some land you will feel the same way. It sucks having to protect yourself from stupid people.
Also why make the land owner carry insurance why dont they just make the bike or atv owner carry it. Because without you guys there would be no problems!
Or how about this. You want land to ride on BUY YOUR OWN!
It is very sad the boy had to die. But with proper knowledge of where he was riding it wouldnt of happened.
Also salfromcal this makes you made enuff to want to kick his azz. Arnt you the one that was riding to fast and on the asphalt roads and ran into a car. Does that make you want to kick everybodys azz that drives a car. Wait untill you own some land you will feel the same way. It sucks having to protect yourself from stupid people.
Also why make the land owner carry insurance why dont they just make the bike or atv owner carry it. Because without you guys there would be no problems!
Or how about this. You want land to ride on BUY YOUR OWN!
It is very sad the boy had to die. But with proper knowledge of where he was riding it wouldnt of happened.
Feb 18, 2007 | 10:59 PM
#35
Trailblazer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
13-yr old Boy Killed...
yes i'am mike, and i payed for the damage i cused becuse it was my falt, and i do have my own property wich im building a house on right now. i will always own up to my mistakes, but thats not the point, i have seen people put up cable on perpouse just to hurt someone, and when you know someone who this has happend to it makes you mad, you could be next. and the person i know that was almost killed had riden the some place many times it dosent take much to mark something just for the sake of those who might not know its there. if you had a kid you would feel the same way, what if that was your son or someone you knew you might feel the same way. i ride the same places all the time and unless you ride 5mph every where, you never know when you could hit someone else head on, my be someone else on a quad or dirt bike. so unless all of you are going to ride 5mph you could be next. it could be a tree or someone else riding. but i have seen to many people put up cable on perpouse and not marking it just to cause harm. all it would take is some kind of marker weather a tree limb or something else. and you should know that, living in the some area, forest service land gose up for sales all the time and land changens owners some people may not mined riders and some may just put up a sign to let people know that are not wanted. like i said i dont condone tresspassing or damaging property but some kind of warning for anyone would be nice.
Feb 19, 2007 | 01:04 AM
#36
Range Rover
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
13-yr old Boy Killed...
And yes Eric you did stand true to what you said. I give you alot of credit for actualy paying for the damage. I also agree with you IF the cable was in place to actualy hurt somebody. The land owner should be liable for damages. But why should every land owner have to carry a bond or insurance, or make public safe fences and gates for people that intrude onto private property. What ever happened to respect. Why dont people take responsibility for their own actions instead of sueing for their own stupidity. And then you got lawyers (greedy scums of the earth) telling people its your right to sue. Then it should be our right to sue the lawyers because they drive the price of insurance, and restrict our freedoms with their frivolous lawsuits.
Feb 19, 2007 | 09:44 AM
#37
Trailblazer
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
13-yr old Boy Killed...
i didnt say you have to have insurance for property i said ask anyone that works for a insurance copmpany, as homeowner or property owner your are responsable for anyone your property weather they have the right to be there or no.t i dont think it is fare ether but lats the law. if some kid was play where im building my house and gets hurts on somthing im lyable. the same applys for a property.
Feb 19, 2007 | 01:36 PM
#38
Pro Rider
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,250
Likes: 0
13-yr old Boy Killed...
Originally posted by: boat
After reading this thread you shure can tell who owns property and who doesnt. I think the person riding should know about the area before he or she ride there. Its just like hunting you know what zones are legal and zones are game refuge. Im also shure the cable didnt hang its self so it must of had a post or fence on each side.
Also salfromcal this makes you made enuff to want to kick his azz. Arnt you the one that was riding to fast and on the asphalt roads and ran into a car. Does that make you want to kick everybodys azz that drives a car. Wait untill you own some land you will feel the same way. It sucks having to protect yourself from stupid people.
Also why make the land owner carry insurance why dont they just make the bike or atv owner carry it. Because without you guys there would be no problems!
Or how about this. You want land to ride on BUY YOUR OWN!
It is very sad the boy had to die. But with proper knowledge of where he was riding it wouldnt of happened.
After reading this thread you shure can tell who owns property and who doesnt. I think the person riding should know about the area before he or she ride there. Its just like hunting you know what zones are legal and zones are game refuge. Im also shure the cable didnt hang its self so it must of had a post or fence on each side.
Also salfromcal this makes you made enuff to want to kick his azz. Arnt you the one that was riding to fast and on the asphalt roads and ran into a car. Does that make you want to kick everybodys azz that drives a car. Wait untill you own some land you will feel the same way. It sucks having to protect yourself from stupid people.
Also why make the land owner carry insurance why dont they just make the bike or atv owner carry it. Because without you guys there would be no problems!
Or how about this. You want land to ride on BUY YOUR OWN!
It is very sad the boy had to die. But with proper knowledge of where he was riding it wouldnt of happened.
Are you looking for a couple more acres? I'll give ya a few [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] J/K
Feb 19, 2007 | 04:58 PM
#39
Range Rover
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
13-yr old Boy Killed...
Thanks but I have 40 acres. Its hard enuff tring to keep people off that. The problem with my land is its got forest service on 4 sides and its semi remote. So its almost impossible to keep people out. I have lost 5 gates total due to tresspassers.
Feb 20, 2007 | 06:20 PM
#40
Pro Rider
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
13-yr old Boy Killed...
I have to agree with Captain and Monty here. If a landowner has signage up to deter trespassing, and some sort of barrier in place to keep people from entering the property via a trail or road, it shouldn't be the landowner's responsibility if somebody gets hurt.
Everybody agrees that it's a shame that a kid died here.
Are they supposed to leave the property open and rely on the honor system - hope that people will see the sign and realize they shouldn't enter the property and not enter? We all know how that works.
We all know they only thing that will guarantee no injury to somebody entering the property is no barrier. Whether it's rope, cable, a fence, a hole - well marked or not - it's possible for somebody to hit it. Let's say if the whole barrier is painted safety orange...then, is the landowner supposed to say to himself "hmmm - they may not see this at night when they come around the bend at 40 mph...I think I should put a spotlight up for nighttime".
If an obstruction is put up with malicious intent ie: to hurt somebody - then there's a problem - and by all means the person who put that up should be held legally accountable.
What happened to riding responsibly and safely? Most of us here are beyond 13 years old, and have been there - and we all did stupid stuff. Unless this is a barrier that was just put on a previously open trail/path - then it may be safe to say the kid may have been going too fast - on a trail he hadn't been on before - which is a recipe for disaster.
No matter what the circumstance - this is truly a sad event for the child and his family.
Everybody agrees that it's a shame that a kid died here.
Are they supposed to leave the property open and rely on the honor system - hope that people will see the sign and realize they shouldn't enter the property and not enter? We all know how that works.
We all know they only thing that will guarantee no injury to somebody entering the property is no barrier. Whether it's rope, cable, a fence, a hole - well marked or not - it's possible for somebody to hit it. Let's say if the whole barrier is painted safety orange...then, is the landowner supposed to say to himself "hmmm - they may not see this at night when they come around the bend at 40 mph...I think I should put a spotlight up for nighttime".
If an obstruction is put up with malicious intent ie: to hurt somebody - then there's a problem - and by all means the person who put that up should be held legally accountable.
What happened to riding responsibly and safely? Most of us here are beyond 13 years old, and have been there - and we all did stupid stuff. Unless this is a barrier that was just put on a previously open trail/path - then it may be safe to say the kid may have been going too fast - on a trail he hadn't been on before - which is a recipe for disaster.
No matter what the circumstance - this is truly a sad event for the child and his family.