I did a little research on synthetics use for chinnese quad motors to help controll heat issues. I found some interisting info on the use of synthetics and wet clutches in motorcycle motors. this info was found at http://www.motor-oil-engineers.com/?...OVMTC=standard This engineer was asked: Will synthetic oil cause the wet clutch in my motorcycle to slip?
HIS ANSWER:
Whether the oil is a petroleum oil or synthetic is not the issue here. As stated previously, synthetic oil is not more ?slippery? than petroleum oil. Both petroleum oil and synthetic oil for automotive use has friction modifiers blended in, which are typically not compatible with wet clutch applications. There are motorcycle specific oils blended specifically for motorcycle applications with wet clutches that should be used in motorcycles. These lubricants do not have any friction modifiers blended in.
He also states that synthetics can be used for break in period and will not cause leaks due to gaskets being effected. I read something about not using them during break in cause the gaskets wont swell properly and may leak. I was thinking on using synthetic for the new bushman 200u air cooled quad I just purchaced to help keep engine temps down but am now not shure due to the effects on the internal clutch. The only other alternative I was looking into was the brand LUCA,s synthetic oil additive that recommends a 10% ratio for motor cycles with internal wet clutches. I e-mailed this engineer and asked him what would be appropriate to use+if it would keep temps down. I am waiting for an answer. I,ll post when and if He answers me. Anybody tried using full (partial)synthetics and did it effect your clutch+temps in a possitive or negative way? Any feedback would be great.

 

update: recieved a responce from dave the lubrication engineer. I,m adding first what I wrote to him because his answer was based on the information I supplied to him as you will see at the end of his answer. Hope this helps some of us!!!!! I have a 4 stroke 200cc, internal wet clutch,on an air cooled motor produced in china(not shure who made motor ) The motor is on a chinnese built quad I have just purchaced with a manuel internal wet clutch that is lubricated with the engine oil. I have heard of these motors having problems with over heating because they are air cooled with just a small computer sized fan blowing air on the head fins to cool them when not moving.When running these motors at high rpm,s and not moving very fast they are said to reach the 300deg range. I have also heard that the optimum operating temp for these type motors is around 200dg with the high limit at 250dg. The MFG recommends running 20/40 or 15/40w in these motors. My first question to you is (would a fully synthetic oil help to keep engine temps down?) second question (would a synthetic adative like LUCA,s synthetic oil stabilizer be more appropriate for the application( LUCA,s recommends a 10% ratio for motorcycles) Third question,( would the synthetic oil effect the operation of the internal clutch which is lubricated by the engine oil.) My last questin is, I can not find an equilivant synthetic oil in 20/40w or 15/40w which is recommended by MFG for the engine. Can you tell me what would be appropriate from any of the producers of synthetic oils for my application. Any info would be greatly helpfull to me and about 56,000 inthusiasts that are in an atv information blog site called atvconnection. Thanks, Scott DeWolf His responce to me:
Hi Scott, the AMSOIL 10W-40 motorcycle oil is exactly what you need for
this application, it meets and exceeds all manf and wet clutch specs. I
have attached the data sheet. Do not use any aftermarket oil additives
with AMSOIL as they can be detrimental to its function and performance.
You do not need a 20W or 15W, the 40W is what is more important. the
15W, 10W, 20W are only for initial starting in cold weather and there is
hardly any difference.

If you would like complete product, technical, Factory Direct catalog
and Dealer/Preferred Customer wholesale pricing and an application
please leave me your mailing address by replying to this email and I will
send it out right away.

Best Regards,

Dave Mann
Lubrication Specialist - Truck/Automotive Engineer
Society of Automotive Engineers Professional Member
Performance Oil Technology, L.L.C.
www.performanceoiltechnology.com
1-888-879-1362

3698 Leeside Lane
Traverse City, MI 49686
Business Mailing Address:
P.O. Box 215
Acme, MI 49610-0215

Every attempt has been made to ensure that the information provided in
this e-mail correspondence is accurate and reliable. However,
Performance Oil Technology, L.L.C. makes no warranty, guarantee, or promise
(express or implied) concerning the accuracy of our e-mail response, as it
is based solely on the information provided to us by the e-mail
originator.



I am unable to attatch pdf file he sent me but you can find it on AMSOL,s site under 10w40 synthetic motor cycle oil

 

I think you might of seen my post about synthetic oil... I was actually refering to an Synthetic atv/motorcycle oil... Although I did find some break in information...

REGARDING THE USE OF AMSOIL SYNTHETIC MOTOR OILS in brand new or rebuilt four stroke gasoline or diesel engines, it is recommended to operate the engine up to its first normal drain interval with a petroleum motor oil.

There are two primary reasons for this recommendation:

New engines or engine components generate high wear metals and generally contain debris from machining and assembly. It is more beneficial to allow these wear metals to collect in an inexpensive motor oil than to circulate throughout the crankcase for extended periods in a synthetic motor oil. By operating the vehicle to its first drain interval with a petroleum oil, these wear metals and manufacturing debris collect in the oil and are then flushed out of the crankcase when drained. This allows for a much cleaner operating environment for the synthetic lubricant.


Within the first miles of operation, if there are any defects in the assembly or workmanship of the engine components, then they may be corrected before installing the more expensive synthetic motor oil. Occasionally, rebuilt engines may have re-machined components or materials which can sometimes be mismatched, resulting in problems which will develop in a fairly short period of time. If excessive oil consumption or any other problem is noted, it should be corrected prior to changing to AMSOIL Synthetic Oil.

Racing Applications:
For racing applications, a synthetic motor oil can be installed right away. These engines are frequently disassembled and rebuilt under more exacting conditions and require the improved wear protection of a synthetic motor oil. Extended drains are rare due to common contaminants such as fuel dilution and dirt entry, therefore we would recommend oil analysis to determine the servicability of the lubricant.

Two-Cycle Applications:
The breaking-in of a two-cycle engine is essentially the wearing of the mating surfaces. AMSOIL recommends the use of our two-cycle oils during the break-in period, however, because our oils do such a good job at preventing wear, the break-in process may take longer. Follow the manufacturer's recommendations for mix ratios and equipment operation during break-in.
AMSOIL Technical Service Bulletin: OT-2004-07-01

The Article


I also found this about engine break in...

Second, most engine and lubricant manufacturers recommend that synthetic
oil not be used during the "break-in" period of an engine. The reason
for this is that synthetics, possessing extraordinary lubricity and
lubricant film strength, do not permit the metal wear necessary for the
seating of piston rings. A change to synthetic motor oil should wait
until you new or rebuilt engine has completed the break-in period of six
to eight thousand miles.

The article


Lats one....

3 more words on break- in:
NO SYNTHETIC OIL !!

Use Valvoline, Halvoline, or similar 10 w 40 Petroleum Car Oil for at least
2 full days of hard racing or 1,500 miles of street riding / driving.
After that use your favorite brand of oil.


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Viewer Questions:

Q: If break- in happens so quickly, why do you recommend using petroleum break- in oil for 1500 miles ??

A: Because while about 80% of the ring sealing takes place in the first hour of running the engine,
the last 20% of the process takes a longer time. Street riding isn't a controlled environment, so most of the mileage may
not be in "ring loading mode". Synthetic oil is so slippery that it actually "arrests" the break in process before the rings can seal completely. I've had a few customers who switched to synthetic oil too soon, and the rings never sealed properly no matter how hard they rode. Taking a new engine apart to re - ring it is the last thing anyone wants to do, so I recommend a lot
of mileage before switching to synthetic. It's really a "better safe than sorry" situation.

Q: My bike comes with synthetic oil from the factory, what should I do ??

A: I recommend changing the factory installed synthetic oil back to petroleum for the break-in period.

Q: What about the main and rod bearings, don't they break - in ??

A: Actually, the operation of plain bearings doesn't involve metal to metal contact !! The shiny spots on used
bearings are caused from their contact with the crankshaft journals during start up after the engine has been sitting a while,
and the excess oil has drained off. This is the main reason for not revving up the engine when it's first started.

The subject of plain bearings is one of the most mysterious aspects of engines, and will be covered in a future issue
of Power News. In it, I'll reveal more information that fully explains the non-contact phenomenon.

Q: Why change the oil at 20 miles ?? Doesn't the oil pick up
screen catch the aluminum bits ???

A: It's true that the screen stops the big pieces, but many areas of the engine aren't within the oil filtration system. The oil that is splashed around will circulate metal debris to the lubricated bearing surfaces. For example, transmission gears and their ball bearings are unprotected by the filtration system, and even the cam chain makes a perfect "conveyer belt" to
bring metal debris up into the cylinder head !!

A close examination of a new engine will reveal lots of aluminum deposits on steel parts. This aluminum coats and tightens
up the clearances of the parts, which creates a loss of power. Most of the time I spend "blueprinting"
an engine is actually inspecting every part and "de-aluminizing" them !!

I prefer to remove the oil pan and clean the aluminum bits out of a new engine out that way, but a $20 oil change
is an easy and inexpensive way to flush the initial particles that come loose in the first miles.

Q: What about motorcycle V.S. car oils ???

A: This is a topic all by itself !! It will be covered in a future issue of Power News.

Q: Will this break - in method cause my engine to wear out faster ???

A: No, in fact, a poor ring seal will allow an increase in the by products of combustion to contaminate the oil.
Acid contamination and oil consumption are the 2 reliability problems which are the result of an
"owner's manual" or "magazine tech article" style easy break-in.

By following the instructions on this page, you'll find that your oil is cleaner and the engine will rev quicker.
Plus, you'll have much better torque and power across the power range from the vastly improved ring seal.

Reliability and Power are 100% connected !!


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The article

 

Thanks, great info you guys have here.