OK blackballed so you had to bring up the AMA. I am a member of the AMA/ d-36. I joined to race and to support my sport. I used to think that they were for us 100%. I can only wonder what they(the ama) could have accomplished for all off roader's, with all the money they spent battling Clear Channel. Just my bad attitude coming out.

 

I guess I'm more than a little ignorant about the deal with Clear Channel; could you please give us some details? I do recoginize racing's important role in the overall scheme of things and would certainly be disappointed if any extra effort was wasted where we need it most.....out on our trails.

 

Clear channel is the group televising Supercross. I am not completely familar with what their disagreements were but it was the AMA's main priority for about 3yr's. It involved something to do with who got the most profit's from Supercross racing. I am not sure what percentage of AMA members race Supercross, I assume it is a very small percentage. I don't personally know any Supercross racers.

 

black: The helmet issue to me has always been like WTF? I guess it comes from me being from CA where if you are on public property you HAVE to wear a helmet. From what I've been told it's a bout a $250 fine or so. Riding doubled up? Nope, unless the ATV was manufactured for double riders (they just changed that effective 1/1/04 to ALLOW 2-up on 2-up machines.) Again, I think the fine is +200. DUI, open container, speeding, etc. are all applicable to OHVs.

And don't even get me started on loud pipes. I can't stand them. Plus it takes energy to make noise. I'd rather the most amount of energy go out the sprokect, not the exhaust. Loud 4-strokes are worse that loud 2-strokes. I guess it's the really low base thump they have that seems to travel further. We have specific limits there. Most everything is 96dB. Some of the old competition bikes are allowed 101dB. I've been present for two sound checks (both voluntary). One guy popped 104+ on a WR400 (or WR426, not sure) with a WB E-Series w/ 4 plates! The other was close to that on a Quadzilla that had no packing left. He repacked and put out 100.4 dB (and the bike ran BETTER!)

This was at Hollister Hills SVRA which is at the forefront, if you will, of sound enforcement of all the CA State ran parks (State Vehicle Recreation Areas are ran by the Off-Highway Motor Vehicle Division of CA State Parks). Now sound enforcement is coming to Pismo and people are REALLY tweaked (WTF happened at Pismo) It's the law, it's on the books (current sound limits have been on the books since 1998, at the least and sound limits go back to the 1970s at the Federal level.) People live next to the parks (well some of the parks) and we need to be good neighbors. We may not like them, they may not like us, but we need to get along. Lawsuits costs US too much money. WE pay entrance fees, registration fees and taxes. When someone sues the state over idiots with loud pipes, we ALL pay. This is why Hollister is so tough on sound. The state got sued for NOT enforcing the sound limits.

Th only place I see people letting their kids run off riding seems to be at Pismo. I cringe when I see the kids mount up and take off by themselves (group of kids, about 10-13 y/o ). That place is 1500 acres. I think they stick relatively close, but I still worry. I have seen some stuff out there that is tickets waiting to happen. Once saw a small girl, maybe 10, if that, riding a Raptor! WTHell? It was all she could do to reach the pegs and she was bouncing all over that thing. At least she had a helmet on...never mind the shorts and tennis shoes....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img] The one group I ride with that has a lot of kids involved are pretty adiment about safety gear. They aren't even allowed to SIT on a bike (running or not) w/o a helmet on.

I'm not a member of any organizations, though I keep meaning to sign up with ATVA. I've just never heard anything really all that positive with AMA, in regards to ATVs. I belong to a couple of riding groups, but we are just groups, and nothing official.

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I checked out the thumper web site. I ride missouri. Out here if someone on a quad did the things they described. The real riders would administer a little corrective reasoning, if you know what I mean. The type of riding we do precludes problems with dirtbikes. A bike could never crawl the rocks,pull the mudholes,or cross the deep water we activly seek. Our credo is anytime,any terrain, any weather, any time night or day, we ride.

 

yep,
I visited thumper talk and cant beleive some of the comments that a few of the airhead dirtbike riders make in there about ATVs.These jerks forget that this is allmost 2005 and the days of dirtbike domination on the trails is YEARS behind us and will be this way for a very long time because of an ATVs versatility.

There are idiots on ALL types of Off Road Vehicles,and for these jerks to lay the blame on just ATVs,is both childish/senseless and biased.

 

I guess I would be one of those airhead dirtbikers.

To shed some light on this. I live in NJ. If you know nothing about NJ here's a little for ya.

Any kind of ORV activity is illegal in this state. About 5 years ago the man started putting the screws to us. Everyone bikes, quads, you name it. I live in an area with an abundance of riding. We never used to get bothered at all. Cops would wave as they went by and you never got hassled.

Here comes the hard facts.

The reason the man has put us on lockdown is this: They are tired of air lifting unexpeirianced, drunk, with no helmet ATV riders. That is fact!

I am in the woods all the time. Now maybe where all you guys are from the ATVers are responsable and wear all thier gear. In NJ it's not that way. 9 out of 10 ATVers I come across are not wearing helmets. They come out wearing baggy shorts, ginny-T's, sneakers and goggles. Like they think they are in a DMX video or something.

The bashing comes from this. Bikes have been in the woods since the 60's and never had many problems. When ATVs first hit the scene you had crossover riders who knew the deal. Now it has changed. Parents are buying kids these machines and without even finding out about training and safety gear they just let tham out to run wild.

I am in the minority within my group of friends being the only one that rides 2 wheels. This is my preferance. I am also a member of an ATV club that is trying to be politicaly active in our state and trying to envoke public awareness. We help out with clean ups held by the Sierra club and have members who are ASI certified and teach safe riding classes. We also advocate full safety gear. We are trying to educate an ignorant public and make them aware that we are hear and not going to stop riding.

Unfortunately it is the majority of ATVers that are at fault. It is due to lack of education and experiance.

 

I've beeen riding off road cycles since 1968.In 1983,I made the switch over to 3-4 wheelers.So to say that I've been around off roading for awhile,would be an understatement.

One of the reasons you MIGHT seem to think that its allways the ATVers that are causing the ruckus is because of the numbers?ATVs outnumber off road cycles by about 3-1 in the State of Michigan.I dont know what the numbers are in other States,but if the higher % of USE is coming from ATVs,than its only natural for it to seem like an ATV issue?

In Michigan,where im from,I can honestly say that I've had more close calls with dirt bike riders than any other form of motorized Off Road vehicles.Most cyclists tend to go far to FAST and this can especially be a problem when they dont slow down coming around a blind corner.I had 2200.00 dollars of damage done to my ATV frame when I had to QUICKLY point my front wheels to the right to miss a cyclist that was traveling to fast around a blind corner and headed right towards me.My right front tire caught a tree and bent the frame.I was OK because I was only traveling about 8mph,the cyclist just continued on with NO regards to if I was hurt or not.

SAFETY ISSUE'S?
this is a 2 part PROBLEM!-The first problem is the DEALERS!Alls they give a damn about is HOW MUCH $$ they will make off of the sold product and most do not give their customers a seconds information about the safety aspects of the off road vehilcle that was just purchased.I am a ASI safety Instructor and also a DNR certified ATV safety Instructor for the State of Michigan,there is not a single Dealer within a 40 mile radius of my home that does not know me on a personal basis.They ALL have my bussiness cards and are told to put one in EVERY sale.Yet,when I come back a month or two later to the same dealership,the SAME amount of bussiness cards remain.Salespeople have an OBLIGATION to inform their customers about where/when/how to acheive these safety classes,99% dont give a rip!

The second part is PARENTS!
Parents MUST make sure that they PROPERLY size/fit their youth on the correct size ATV and they also MUST make sure that ALL youth under the age of 16 take a safety class by a CERTIFIED ORV safety Instructor and not some Jack-In-The-Box Instructors that the DNR hire with little or NO experience in the ORV safety field.Another words,they are getting hired because they wear a badge!.

Until we educate the DEALERS that sell these ORVs and the PARENTS that are responsable for their youth using these ORVs,problems will continue.

Bill

 

i've only been around quads for about 2 years now... but my dad was an avade cycilist from the 70s to late 80s and has warned me about alot of stuff and also has instructed me on a few things.... In Indiana they do NOT require safety corses, or as far as i know they don't... im going to be 16 in 2 months and for my size and current experience i would say that a 350warrior is jsut fine... but im always wanting just a tad more power [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Muddy4life has hit it on the head.

I agree completely.

I'm not bashing the ATVers.

When it comes to safty equipment the bike riders mostly wear all thier gear. It has been around long enough that it is almost common knowledge what to wear on an off road bike. The 2 wheels will also give you enough of a scare to realize you need it. ATVs give many riders a false sense of security having 4 wheels and being very stable.

I have seen many ATVers get hurt from lack of education. All the helicopter rides around here were from people riding recklessly without any protection on at all.

We've had guys flip and break thier backs. Guys drag racing at night drunk missing a bridge completely and going off the side. (this guy almost died) Head ons. You name it.


Here's one...... When my friends and I go out we keep a common practice of staying to the right on roads large enough to do so. We were going down one of these roads real fast. The whole group. Now this road the turns are not so sharp but do get a bit blind. We come around a corner and right in front of us was a line of ATVs. Not in single file but 7 abreast across this road. Wouldn't you know that the youngest riders in the group on 90s were on the wrong side. I had to skid to a stop nearly missing the kids. I was so pissed at the parents for not teaching thier kids the proper way to travel down a road. I was not inocent being that we were all about topped out. But the common sense of stay to the right seems to be ignored when out in the woods. If I would have hit one of those kids not only would I have felt like crap but I would have been the big bad guy.

I can't stress enough the importance of safty training. It should start at the dealers.