help me shed some light on the ignorant group of dirtbikers.


Ignorant Quad bashers


thanks

 

I'll be penning a reply there during the holidays. There is plenty of blame to be tossed around on both sides of the fence and it is <u>those</u> issues which will always not only divide us...but make us easy prey for others (I am honestly surprised that these environmental groups haven't attacked us on more fronts than they have....we've been darn lucky up to this point).

 

There's a link to another thread in there about the fact does anyone actually maintain the trails.

Most of the riding areas in CA are government owned and maintained. The private park is the exception to the rule (insurance is the biggest issue, I think.) I ride one place (Miami Trails) that's on USFS land. Trail maintenance is non-existant from what I can tell. There were trees across the some trails for the entire season. The FS removes the trees from the main roads, and did a couple on the trails. But for the most part they stay down. You have 3 choices: go over if you can (a little hard when the tree is 2' in diamter and a foot off the ground), go around it or turn around. Most people just go around as easily as they can.

Do to this being in the mountains (4,000'+ elevation) erosion is a serious issue. I wouldn't blame it on the MCs or the quads. Some of the rutting as the same width as my quad for a while, then merges and seperates, so it can't be just because of the quads. It's just the steepness of the trail and the rainfall/snow melt. They've done some trail work (either a plastic mesh membrain, concrete block or wood beams on the trail to stop the erosion. And this place is probably 70% MC usage.

The actual worse damage up there is rutting from people taking 4x4 trucks down a muddy road. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img]

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At least in Michigan; the issue of how we will maintain our trails in the future is being effectively blocked by one group and one man who derive their income from making sure we continue to do it by hand. You wouldn't believe that could be true in 2004; yet it took me almost 5 years to find out that nobody would point out this fact in public but myself (and that's not going to break anybody's hold on anything).

"Pay to play" and non-volunteer sustainable maintenance programs are the future of this sport....the problem being that there are not enough people with sets big enough to make it happen. You are effectively dealing with the most pathetic generation of riders to ever swing their leg over a motor....and that's being "generous".

 

black: I've seen you post before (I've been on the board a few mos. short of 2 years) about your trials and tribulations in your neck of the woods. Seems like a complete PITA BS situation that's going on.

I'm not sure how successful pay for play would be here. Liability insurance in CA is a huge PITA and expense. I know a new track area just opened (grand opening is next weekend, IIRC) a bit north of me. It's not complete, but I wish them the best. I guess they were able to secure insurance somehow. Most of the riding around here is government owned and maintained. THere's a couple of cycle parks that are ran by local cities or counties. Most however is state (ran by the Parks Dept.) or Federal (USFS or BLM). I mainly ride SVRA (State) or up in the forest.

And people will absolutely freak at Pay for Play prices here. They b*tch, moan and groan that camping fees for the SVRAs went from $6/night to $10/night. I'm not sure anywhere else you can get those kind of deals. That gets one vehicle in plus one legally towable vehicle in. It's not a per-person charge. So if you have crew cab truck with all your buddies (or pack into a Suburban or Excursion) and tow a trailer, everyone gets in for that price. Day use prices are like $6 per day. Year-long passes are about $50 and good at all 7 SVRAs. I've heard of people having to pay like $15 per person per day.

All of the SVRAs have Rangers assigned to them and the Rangers can administer first aid until EMS arrives. Some places are higher maintance than others. Pismo gets the brunt of the usage (1.5M visitors per year), but most of their costs are in maintaining fences, refuse pickup and solid waste pickup (it's all pit toilets). Some places like Hollister also have a LOT of trail maintenance that has to be done. Mother Nature takes care of Pismo. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

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I guess my thought has always been.....when are we going to start weeding these people out? Are the same people complaining about pay to play....the same people who are making sure they spend (quote/unquote) "extra" bucks to get their kids the proper safety equipment as they grow out of it? Are they the same people who want to fight for stiffer penalties to be imposed on those that violate our rules? Are they the same people paying membership dues or filling up the tank to go to their state capitol or wherever the fight takes them?

As you alluded to above; what in the world do these fellow riders believe it costs to move this sport forward into the 21st century....and who in the heck do they think ought to pay for it ?!

Again, if you don't weed out the lowest common denominator amongst you; your group will inevitably be defined by these very same people. You'll never rid yourselves of them; it is the fact that somebody has to simply strap a set on <u>and stand up to them</u> (which isn't happening locally or nationally on any significant scale).

Great comment and thanks for sharing.

 

I have been riding in no. cal. USFS for about 20 year's. Places like, Clear Creek, Twain Harte, Elkin's flat, Upper Lake, Fout's Spring's, To name a few. It has been my experience that any trail maintainence is done by the Enduro Club members that put on a race in that area. Most of the work is done by a very small percentage of the member's in that club.

Now that I think about it it is a small percentage of OHV user's "the idiot's" trying to get us kicked out of all area's and probubly a even smaller percentage of people trying to save these area's.

 

Me and another person or going to see if we can clear trees on our own. He's got a chain saw and a ute so hopefully we can get them off the trails. I know the FS has finally gotten their act together with better management practices after realizing that forest fires are natural and normal so let's not put them out unless they are major and do better on timber sales (no more clear cutting.)

I plan on checking out Clear Creek in a couple weeks....12th sounds about right. I wish I had some place with a 15-30 min drive to get there that was nice. Only places that close are private land or you risk tickets/impounding.

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Clear Creek has 2 club's involved:

Salinas Rambler's Motorcycle Club, They put on the Quicksilver National Enduro, usually mid Feb.

Timekeepers Motorcycle Club, They put on the Wild Boar Enduro and the Lil Piglet enduro, Usually early March.

The Salinas Rambler's even own property right next to the riding area. They use it to stage their enduro.

 

You've probably just given the most accurate piece of statistical info that's never been researched and which pretty much tells our entire story. The thing which burns me is that our national leaders are not promoting an "us against them" campaign which brings in issues like loud pipes, HELMETS and the fines/impoundments necessary to stop them. It's one thing to host a "sound summit" or print "always wear a helmet" on your website or newsletter....it's an entirely different one altogether when you point to exactly where these abuses are occuring and to come out PUBLICLY against them.
Which is why these gut-less leaders talk "big" about all these things everywhere but places like Windrock; where you can witness two 6-7 year old kids ride past everybody in attendance at a national event.... doubled up, helmetless and ALONE up the mountainside....with a follow-up article about how great place it is and how good a time they had ("by the way, did those kids ever get back before dark?....").

If you're content to have your quad organization be the red-headed step-child of the AMA.....then you darn well better at least stand up for the basics before you'll see a dime <u>more</u> of my membership money.