Im afraid that if you turn these guys in,it could jeopardize your attempt at getting the logging road OPEN that you earlier discussed.Instead,I would make sure that you have a copy of the ORV law book for your State to hand over to these guys in the event that you see them again.When I operate my ATV,I ALWAYS carry extra ORV Guidebooks for OTHER riders I encounter on the trail,in an effort to show them that what they are doing is illegal..Than if they offer me any crap,they'll get turned in..To date [23yrs] I've never had the need to turn in anybody.

Tell them that you would prefer that they follow the letter of the law instead of you turning them in for not,and see how it goes.

Best of luck.

 

Tell them that you would prefer that they follow the letter of the law instead of you turning them in for not,and see how it goes.

Down here in the pot growing capital of my primarily public land state, with a single plant being worth $5k, I suggest being well-armed when offering that proposal.

 

Deeplaker, I certainly can understand the dillemma you are going through right now. It is a catch 22 situation.. but there are a couple points I want to make... that may help you make the right choice.

First off, I thin we need to make a real distiction between what is considered responsible riding and what is not. That said, if what you witnessed was the act of an irresponsible riding act, then by all means it should be reported. It is very important that teh person on the other end understand that you want to make it clear that not all ATV enthusiasts are irresponsible, and that you are trying to break that myth...

Secondly, we all have complained over teh past years on this and many other lists, that one of the basic things that you and I CAN do to make the sport better, safer etc, is to be self policing. That establishes credability within the community. It may not be popular.. some might feel they are beeing picked on etc.. but it comes down to those of us who are fighting shed the bad element and make this sport a better place have to be willing to make the tough calls and do what is right.

In this particular case, unless you can tell a judge you witnessed the act, even though you could identify the damage and the probable suspects, it would be hard for law enforcement to move forward with any direct action. Legally there would be problems with bringing a case like this.... But, by reporting the incident, law enforcement, DNR what ever should appreciate the act, and understand the motivation.

We can't have it both ways.. either we support law enforcement or not. One way we get rid of the bad element.. the other, we have no room to complain.

Direct confrontation with persons carrying a loaded rifle may not be prudent... especially in Wisconsin given the recent events of a year ago... Being a Native cheesehead, I know what a little attitude and deadly weapens can produce. And if there is one thing us cheese head deer hunters have, it is an attitude...

If it were me... the phone call would have been made....

 

DB: It was a hard decision and I probably should have called the TIP line right away. The county Forestry, Parks and Recreation Committee meets in a couple of weeks, and I have five minutes to present my case for opening the logging road near the trail that was damaged. I have since learned that three people, whom I think are professional tree huggers from another part of the county, also want to address my agenda item. I shudder to think that they might show up with photos of the trail damage that I saw.

I did miss a good photo opportunity myself just after deer season closed. I checked out the road I'm trying to get opened and saw a muddy mess of bulldozer tracks on it. Near the locked gate was an ugly pile of debris that had been pushed up to block an opening where people might possibly have ridden around the gate. A picture of that would have showed how trying to keep people out is doing more damage than just opening the gate and letting people use that road. This bulldozer work was apparently done before deer season. I couldn't get back with my camera until a few days after I first saw the mess and by then a couple of inches of snow had taken away the dramatic visual effect.

 

My advice is to take away their advantage and acknowledge the trail damage up front, and use it to highlight that a properly built and maintained trail like the one you are proposing will REDUCE the damage potential.. and with proper funding and support, the damage could be mitigated, or eliminated altogether.

I'd go so far as invite the tree huggers to sit down and help design a trail system that would provide the access you want, AND protect the environment... and watch them squirm in their seats.

Hopefully that would establish credability with the board... that responsible riders (which represent the MAJORITY of ATV enthusiasts) ARE aware of the damage their machines can cause, and are taking steps to promote more earth friendly activities by building new trail systems that are planned and built in ways that mitigate the threats to the environement that our machines can inflict.

Go so far as proposing sound limits etc... take all their arguments and turn them to your advantage...

 

Late look at your problem, but there is a little more to this than most see. If you did not see anyone doing the damage, plates/VIN. only says who owns the vehicle, not who was riding it. People can get out of tickets for cars in NY with the cameras used for speeding & passing red traffic lights (takes a picture of your license plate) because it can't 'prove beyond a resonable doubt' who the driver was. It takes a bit of legal wrestling to win. So you didn't see who did it or it being done. Most courts need a sworn statement by a witnesses, even for small matters, before charging someone with a crime, the police being the usual witness.
Now it's in the open that ATV's are destroying public property (the media finds everything out). A bit tougher to get some help from the politicians to let the same group use public property. How about trying this:
If you know someone in DMV, a law enforcement agency, sometimes even a law office (even car dealers). They can get the name and address of the owners. Write the owner a letter on how their actions (if they even did it) hurts others, and makes it harder for us to be accepted for what we love to do. Let the person that you ask to get the info from know that this is not a 'revenge' thing, just an enlightment for the better. Heck, if you know someone who can get the info, tell them to just put the address on the letter and mail it themselves, you don't even have to know the who it was.
Now if the owner didn't ride it, they aren't as hurt as being dragged to court for something they didn't do or if they did ride but didn't do, there still isn't any real hard feelings. But take someone to court, they know who is accusing them and it doesn't matter if they did it. They know who their accuser is and will be mad to be in court.
If you feel that something should be done, next time call the local law as soon as you you can. Let them investigate and catch the riders as they get back on the quads. They become the witness and it's a lot easier for them to say so-and-so did this and nobody has to know who called on them.






















just because it doesn't 'prove beyond a resonable doubt' that the owner/register of the vehicle was the driver (needs a little legal wrestling).
If you turn them in

 

Thanks HH. Good suggestions. I ended up taking a somewhat different approach. Stopped for a beer at the nearest crossroads bar and described the situation to the bar tender. Found out in two seconds who was riding that quad back there. It was one of my neighbors. However, the bartender said that logging road had already been torn up and that someone else was guilty of that. I hadn't been back there for a few weeks, and it could have been torn up in the meantime.

I'm glad I didn't turn anyone in for this, because the county forestry committee turned down my request to open that other logging road. They didn't have any logical reason--just the usual lame excuse that if they opened this road, they would have to open trails for other groups all over the county. They don't seem capable of evaluating individual situations.

Anyway, it didn't make me feel much like cooperating with them enough to turn in my neighbor.

 

I understand the action.. Can't say I agreee with the forestry folks... but then I'd have to ask why did they allow the logging road to be built in the first place? Seems like a double standard... You are trying to take advantage of something already existing, not create something new.... If it was official, there could be more policing and the riders tend to take care of things they have... Ignoring the issue only makes them into criminals...... because either way, the trail will be ridden...

 

One thing that is happening across all land ownerships is the selective exclusion of public from the use of that land. Whether that is right or wrong is simply a value judgement that is based on your particular point of view. The thing that happens for sure though is that more and more people are forced into using less and less area and so the impacts are greatly increased. A handful of careful riders leave no trace at all, 100 careful riders leave very visible signs they have been there and when you throw in 2 or 3 idiots that delight in tearing up the ground you really have a mess..................Finding areas that are private and unused is becoming more and more of a problem even in this isolated corner of Oregon..................Tass