Congrats Muddy, that's quite an accomplishment. Is he planning on a local job or moving out of state? My last friend who went into police work (BS in CJ at Ferris) got his best offer from South Dakota.

 

Thank You All,
for your kind words,im extremly proud of him and the other 23 recruits that he graduated with.

The Sergant put on a very nice ceremony to.All these recruits did a nice job.

My son will be a local officer,at least that is what he is shooting for right now.

 

M4L, I don't want to get off the subject this thread is about[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

I pray, he has a safe and fulfilling career in Law Enforcement[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

Sometimes thats just what this thread needs. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

I do to! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

 

"Hopefully", we will get through our American Motorcycle Association District Vice-president/Legislative Director/Michigan Orv Advisory Board Chairman's original post very soon (thanks for your patience):
[quote]
Originally posted by: BusyRider
"Fee's going up next year" No, takes an act of legislature! However, has not been an increase in 13 years. IF, significant more trail is put on the ground to meet todays needs, IFsuitable maintenance is provided, IF more access is given to gas, food and lodging and a few more things corrected, we as user groups should support an increase...."

It is just unbelievable to me that this guy would even "attempt' to TIE <u>all</u> the issues above.."and a few more things (we need) corrected"... into this fee increase...when well over <u>2 weeks</u> BEFORE this thread was even penned...the meeting minutes of his very own meeting reflect the review of a plan to ALREADY increase these same fees without any restrictions whatsoever on the nonsense he now tries to talk "retroactively" in regards to! (for pete's sake, these guys have been hollering about the need to triple the amount given to these "non-profit" trainers for HOW LONG now?).
If more trail is put on the ground? It's <u>already</u> been back-door legislated!!!
If suitable maintenance is provided? For pete's sake....we can't even get them to define what suitable maintenanvce IS !!!
If more access to "gas" is given?...what in the HELL does this have to do with increasing fees???

Sorry, but I can only <u>take </u>so much of this b.s. on any given day and hope that (some of you) can now see why I had to come back to this original post before it was intentionally "passed over" by his fellow AMA cronies....(like my signature).

 

Oh,
I just HAVE to butt in on this one.

Let me just tell you all that BB has NO IDEA what is required to run a bussiness the right way.He is CRYING about the non profits getting 3x more money for safety training.What he DOES'NT tell you is that the organizations that do this training THE RIGHT WAY,which includes HANDS ON training,cant get their hands on ONE PENNY of this money.

Right now,the DNR is handing this 20 dollars per student over to IMPROPERLY trained LEO's who do NOT incorpoorate HANDS ON training in their certification process,let alone have the right idea's on WHAT to instruct in the classroom.

NO ORV Private bussiness enterprise can do HANDS ON training for 20 dollars per student,this I KNOW..

Even at 60 bucks per student [3x more],Private bussiness enterprises like mine,would take a hard hit. However,even my association is willing to try this in an attempt to get these kids trained THE RIGHT WAY,which would INCLUDE evaluating them while actually RIDING their dirtbike or ATV,something the DNR does NOT require.

BB thinks we are all getting RICH off of this training,when in fact,many of us are barely making ends meet.He forgets that their are DIRECT and INDIRECT COSTS that are associated with each class.I think he fixes pumps for a living?Im wondering how he would feel if I told him I wanted my pumps fixed but I did'nt want to pay for the parts to fix them,only labor?

Now I also see that BB does not understand the corrilation between requesting more access to fueling stations while operating our ORVs and raising the ORV sticker fund?Well,BB,let me put it to you this way.Say the DNR says SURE,lets get the increase in ORV sticker monies to the users,but NOT give them more access to getting fuel while riding?How do you think the users of this State are going to feel about paying a HIGHER ORV sticker price,but not being able to get anything for thier increase in fee?

That would be like buying the new Cadillac you've always wanted,but you cant drive it anywhere because of restrictions forbidding Cadillacs on the roadway.

 

BB, would you explain to us, how you think we are going to train as many as 10,000 youths on $180,000-$200,000 income annually. Don't forget, there is material provided by the fund to the instructors, not exactly cheap, don't forget, we have manpower cost for monitoring the program. If we are sucessfull in gaining the amount of students desired, the Safety Training fund will be broke in the near future. That is spending $20. for classroom and $35. for "hands on". This isn't more than basic math.

Will you explain to us, if we have 25% more trail, how that is going to be maintained on the same budget as 05? Very few of us are satisfied with the level of maintenance now. We have "new" money from the "reserve fund", being spent down ant the rate of $900,000 annually, which will be gone over the next 5 years. That gives "maintenance" an additional $450,000 annually. Grooming is not the only item within the maintenance budget. Signage is part of it, that too, a major concern of many. It takes an act of legislature to raise the fees, you can bet, those fees will not be raised until all funds are exhausted.

Not rocket science to know, expand the trail by 25% in 2008, have usage of the trail system increase 3 or 4 times since the last fee increase, in 1993 or whatever. That simply cannot happen, what can you buy today for the same price as 1993 and get 25% more in the package.

Do you know who WE is, people from every segement of the sport. Are WE/I going to tell who helps us out from time to time within the political arena of Lansing? Don't hold your breath.

There is a differance between answers and solutions. Before one gives an answer, they must first understand the question, fully. The solution must satisfy the needs of every facet within the question and be accepted by the majority.

There are projects far more concerning to the sport than responding to PC post. Forest certification, how can we ensure that it happens, without serious detriment to our activity. CPSC rulings, what will they do to our sport and what shall be our response? Can we change the age bracket issue? Additional trail, if, what and where, will this additional trail go? Trail closings, is Gladwin just the beginning? Final Draft Plan, what challenges will it produce? USFS long range plan, how will the dust settle there, will more forest roads be closed, will the UP become "closed unless open"? Under 'forest certification" will we see more forest roads closed in the LP? First approval of recommendations of Safety Task Force, then implementation, won't just happen. What about our use of County roadways, certainly a popular issue, opens up miles of great backroad riding to many, without using an additional inch of forest.

Our plate is FULL. We all need to "raise the bar", while this discussion has been healthy at times, it is pretty much, non-productive to our needs. We have some very positive things coming our way, but we also have things that may take place, the most detrimental in decades to our sports! That is where we need to be involved. It will take the effort of every organized group within our sports, our working with governmental agencies and the legislature to accomplish any single one of our goals.

We all need to answer the following. Will you be involved in a positive manner? How bad do you want it? What sacrifices will you make for a healthy resolution?

 

BusyRider,
Would it be too much to ask what the material cost's and the manpower cost's are so that we all can do the math and share in the bottom line? Please do not take my numbers here as fact because I am just creating an example: As Muddy4Life stated, I have trained 1000 students this year and let's say at $30.00 a pop. That is $30,000. Now take away your above undisclosed costs, what does that leave for an 8 hour (saturday) pure profit day??? Again remember, all the above cost's have been taken out... Sounds to me like a saturday is a very profitible day combinded with fun. I know for a fact that BB invested $1800.00 for 2 training sessions in his community ran by Muddy4Life and remember again, this is after MFL's cut. ( hotel rooms,food, beverages, VCR TV for tapes, tents, land rental,insurance, all on BB. I think you owe it to all of us to disclose these facts so that we can get a true picture of the real costs... Do the math::: $30.00, $50.00, $75.00, or $100.00 per student. I work 60 hours a week, but if I can work an 8-12 hr. sat. and throw money in the bank like this, I will gladly spend the rest of the week planning my next saturday, "Hey it's work/fun but somebody has to do it. When somebody tries or does make as much money in 1 day as most folks make all week, there needs to be some ( Come to Jesus ).

 

 

Heatseaker, there are about 9,375 square miles of public land in Michigan. ORV's, when measuring "designated trail", use less than 3 square miles of public land for trail. That appox. 3 square miles generates 3-5 million annually for the State in tax revenues from sales of parts, equipment, travel, food, lodging and other monies we spend associated with our sport. In addition, we get zero from gas tax, that equals about another million a year we lose. Little doubt, we are getting the short end of the stick. Where can the State generate that much money from that amount of land?

I have never said, I am oppossed to linear trail. It will work fine in some area's, but not all area's are suited, because of soil conditions and terrain. Linear trail systems are favorable to some environmentalists because of one corridor through the forest. Linear trail would make a lot of people very happy, but there is some added maintenance expense involved.

Are you involved in your county on opening the roadways to ORV use?

You don't live far away, give me a shout and we can sit down and visit sometime, maybe Timbers, now that we can soon ride from Liberty road into South Branch.