What is really going on in Michigan
Dec 13, 2005 | 05:44 PM
#142
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
Muddy4Life,
Thank you for your reply. It was cool and calm collected as should be. I read it several times to sure it was really you as normally you seem to get your hackles up quickly. Again thank you for being what I feel is honest and professional. OOP's , Here comes nurse ratchet and she caught us on her floor computer. We all will be confined to our rooms now for awhile so hastily I wish you and your family a happy holidays and maybe if I can sneak out of here I'll try to stop by and say hello.....
Thank you for your reply. It was cool and calm collected as should be. I read it several times to sure it was really you as normally you seem to get your hackles up quickly. Again thank you for being what I feel is honest and professional. OOP's , Here comes nurse ratchet and she caught us on her floor computer. We all will be confined to our rooms now for awhile so hastily I wish you and your family a happy holidays and maybe if I can sneak out of here I'll try to stop by and say hello.....
Dec 13, 2005 | 05:56 PM
#143
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
Theotherguy,
I'am not sure that wood carving or stained glass pays as well. You probably know and I would like to hear how you fit into the pie or would that be need to know "NSA"........ OH, and before they hall me off to my room, I would like to send YOU a case of DEPENDS for Christmas. Would 3XXX be ok ??? If not , then maybe baby size would work...... Please have a wonderful holiday's and look forward to seeing you also for a turkey and cranberry sandwith....
I'am not sure that wood carving or stained glass pays as well. You probably know and I would like to hear how you fit into the pie or would that be need to know "NSA"........ OH, and before they hall me off to my room, I would like to send YOU a case of DEPENDS for Christmas. Would 3XXX be ok ??? If not , then maybe baby size would work...... Please have a wonderful holiday's and look forward to seeing you also for a turkey and cranberry sandwith....
Dec 13, 2005 | 11:21 PM
#144
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
BUSYRDRER,
Thank you very much for trying to redeem your savior but please act like a man and get your facts straight if your point here is to run " Point " on your NEW DEAL". As before, If you want me to lay the truth out, or current FACTS about who you really are " good or bad ", say the word.... I am sure that you will disclose all the info.. to the readers, or I can do it for you. Let me give you a clue"" FUNDS""... As far as saying "kicking a,,,,. you are wrong. I am a passive MAN and would deaL with your wife or mother before even concidering trying to talk normal issues with you because you seem to be in outerspace in regards to the truth. With this said, Give me direction as to where you would like me to go .... I can go in the closet and bring out "skeletons or you can be a man like MUDDY did and bone up.....
Thank you very much for trying to redeem your savior but please act like a man and get your facts straight if your point here is to run " Point " on your NEW DEAL". As before, If you want me to lay the truth out, or current FACTS about who you really are " good or bad ", say the word.... I am sure that you will disclose all the info.. to the readers, or I can do it for you. Let me give you a clue"" FUNDS""... As far as saying "kicking a,,,,. you are wrong. I am a passive MAN and would deaL with your wife or mother before even concidering trying to talk normal issues with you because you seem to be in outerspace in regards to the truth. With this said, Give me direction as to where you would like me to go .... I can go in the closet and bring out "skeletons or you can be a man like MUDDY did and bone up.....
Dec 14, 2005 | 03:26 AM
#146
Weekend Warrior
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,572
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
DAN,
if I may,I would ''suggest'' that you give the abuser of the bodily threat a warning to stop his behaviour or risk being banned,rather than locking down an entire thread.Many of us are here to weed out bad information and certain accusations brought on by certain individules here in Michigan and to lock the thread based on one mans threats,would be a dis-service to all the hard working men/women who try to advance our sport.
if I may,I would ''suggest'' that you give the abuser of the bodily threat a warning to stop his behaviour or risk being banned,rather than locking down an entire thread.Many of us are here to weed out bad information and certain accusations brought on by certain individules here in Michigan and to lock the thread based on one mans threats,would be a dis-service to all the hard working men/women who try to advance our sport.
Dec 14, 2005 | 03:56 AM
#147
Quad Patrol
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,213
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
M4L, I put that out there so that everyone in this thread heeds the warning. I read through every page and post at TT and in here. I can see that this is a touchy subject to the interested parties. I am here only to moderate the content and I wanted it to be known, that threats of any kind, will not be tolerated. If one member is the only one abusing it, then that member will be dealt with. I can only hope, it doesn't come to that.
Dec 14, 2005 | 04:10 AM
#149
Quad Patrol
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,213
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
Originally posted by: MUDDY4LIFE
Thank You,
for a fair response to my request.
Thank You,
for a fair response to my request.
Dec 14, 2005 | 09:24 AM
#150
Pro Rider
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
What is really going on in Michigan
Please (pray) tell me something...why has so much misdirection by these people caused 'us' to worry more about what "I" haven't responded to...when "I" can't even get through Busy Rider's FIRST post.....without <u>first time posters</u> on this forum demanding that we ignore all the issues brought up originally before Busy Rider ducked in and out of the conversation...not to mention.to dropping everything to answer THEIR questions FIRST!
Originally posted by: <B>BusyRider</B>
"...Don't care if you 2, 4 or six wheels. We are going to have areas of disagreement. That don't mean we have to be disagreeable. End result will be, we agree far more, than we disagree...."
Ask the Argo people or Representative Hildenbrand (the author whose recent bill was intentionally misrepresented) how "agreeable" Dick and the DNR have been in allowing utility vehicles on the rest of our system over the years.
Ask me how "disagreeable" and just plain ARROGANT these guys have been to anybody asking the simplest of questions over that same time period.
And finally, ask him just what has been publicly "agreed" upon concerning the future layout of our trail system and what will be used to properly maintain it when we are all dead and gone.
"...We all want more trail, we all want it to be better maintained, we all want it so we don't get lost and we hate a ticket....."
The thing Dick doesn't like to talk about here is that he's got people breathing down his neck that care about more trail alright...more trail for themselves and themselves only for cyclists who could care less if a trail is maintained by anything other than simple manual labor ...at a reimbursed rate equal to using heavy equipment.
And as far as getting 'lost' because of a lack of trail mileage? That has nothing to do with ticket writing and he knows it.
"...We want to be able to at least be able to get food, gasoline and a reasonable distance from either lodging or camping while enjoying this recreational activity. Better yet, we would like the priviledge of riding from our home, if we live in northern Michigan, or riding from our motel or campground to the trail....."
Sure, we want all of that, Dick....yet if your group is not willing to QUANTIFY THE DAMAGE WE HAVE NOW AND WHAT WE NEED DOLLAR-WISE TO NOT ONLY FIX IT BUT MAINTAIN SAME IN THE FUTURE...why do you think this community should allow you to expand it further into places like Detroit?
Is it because the lion's share of you live just outside the big-city suburbs....and that you could care LESS about unbelievably proposing the closure of "hopelessly ruined" trails...and laying "new ones" to ruin right down beside them?
You might lead a lot of these selfish city-slickers around with the promise of this and that....yet I will sit here and fight for the fair evaluatiuon of what we already have....striving for a sound estimation of fixing same and forecasting what we need to fix as time moves along (heck, we could use that $4 million up today in a second just on restoration projects for over 3,000 miles of trails....AND YOU KNOW IT).
"....Having been deeply involved in ORV activity for over two decades, both with motorcycles and ORV's. Own a 230 Honda, wife has a TT125 and we both enjoy our 400 MAX. Live one mile from the trailhead and it irks me to no end, we have to trailer everything but the Honda..."
Get over it, Dick; as you sound like these 'city boys' who want this big riding area built right out their back doors...while guys like me in southwest Michigan have come to ACCEPT the fact that we will travel to our less economically fortunate regions north of here to spread our money around as the snowmobiler's and every other tourist in the history of this state has ever done.
You can't ride out your back door?....well then show this state that you are responsible enough to fix what you have; not cry about needing over 750 more miles you don't even have the equipment to bust that out with....let alone to maintain the 3,000 you 'forgot' about.
"...Facing us in a big way is this "Healthy Forest Initiative". We have not seen but the very beginning of this yet. You had best get yourself educated on this and "prepare for the worst and hope for the best"....."
I'll deal with the treee huggers when I can show them that I can already properly maintain the land they cry about. If you think I'm going to defend a guy who thinks tackling the "Healthy Forest Initiative" is all about closing one trail down for "study" and then busting an entire new one out right beside it...it's no small wonder these people look at us in the manner they do.
What's next?...jumping into bed with these same tree huggers after they tear your rape of the land idea to shreds in debate...while about-face claiming that 'actually'...cyclists have "far less impact than those terrible 4-wheelers" on these same forests...to save your own *****?
Originally posted by: BusyRider
"...(now) Let me hit on some of this "distant from the truth stuff"..."
Since our long departed advisory board chairman has already ducked out of this conversation before it was finished....please allow me to illustrate why he did so:
".. ORV Advisory Board is just that, an Advisory Board. Has no power, zero, is appointed by the DNR....."
No power? ...Hmmm, how does supposedly being the primary CITIZEN'S advisory vehicle for hundred's of thousands of enthusiasts in this state...the people they are told to go <u>to</u> with their primary needs and wants....cause you to somehow DOWNPLAY even the very position itself? And as far as being "appointed by the DNR"...how could you believe that the first obstacle you would have to obviously overcome...is the possible perception within this community that you are not just another talking head flunky for these same people? Again, how could you possibly think that popping your head out from behind that curtain every 3 or 6 months with "we have no power" (<u>but this is the way its going to be, by gosh!!!</u>)...would ever endear you to anybody...let alone cause them to believe any kind of monitored accountability is taking place?
"...Serves as a means for us as users groups to convey our message to the DNR...."
When you stand up there as 'big cheese' at these advisory board meetings claiming that we just have to form a multi-user group council to accomplish the above....then angrily claim many months later that that this same council has "nothing to say" about the very update plan <u>YOUR</u> "OTHER" ADVISORY BOARD CAN'T EVEN PUBLISH A PUBLIC POSITION ON" (as they are charged to do in the very outline of their responsibilities)...why pray tell would this public believe they are properly represented regarding <u>anything</u>??? (especially when this community is rudely rebuked for so much as "daring" to ask who these people are or even what they believe in....let alone being <u>forced</u> to ridiculously argue for years about simple contact information that your counterpart board glady provides in the light of day?).
I mean, c'mon Dick!!! When I go to my representative on your council with simple questions such as the ones above...why would you think we view you as anything but arrogant ***** when said 'representative' flat out refuses to respond after <u>repeated</u> requests to do so....forcing the DNR to inform us that they know not a damn thing....about any of you!
Sorry folks, I've again run out of time and am sorry that each ridiculous statement here takes so much reading effort on your part. Hopefully you understand that this is the first time these people have come out and allowed any of their nonsense to be displayed/debated in public and I think it is a darn good exercise into how these AMA "legislative directors" play ball.
Another commentary regarding Busy Rider's "distant from the truth" claim:
Quote
Originally posted by: BusyRider:
"...Let me hit on some of this "distant from the truth stuff": ORV Advisory Board is just that, an Advisory Board. Has no power, zero, is appointed by the DNR....."
It's just amazing to me how these guys are cut and dry hand-picked by our DNR to represent us and serve as the one and only contact we have with them....yet they are the first (along with the DNR, mind you) to claim that they have no power and know absolutely nothing about what the other is doing.
The chairman hand-picks a council to supposedly represent "all" of us.
We, as light 4-wheeled users, have to figure out who is on it (their names are never published in even the DNR meeting minutes) yet when we finally find out who this guy is?....he shuts up like a clam.(pretty much similiar to the one and only representative we ever had on the board....and this guy's "mentor").
Meanwhile, we go to the DNR and ask about this huge 22,000 member representative organization....they first claim to never hear of them...then claim that they will get us their website...then claim that the website doesn't exist and that they are merely some "informal" group!!!
IF THE RESIDENTS HERE IN MICHIGAN CHOOSE TO "ALLOW" STATEMENTS LIKE THOSE ABOVE OR THOSE IN MY SIGNATURE TO BE PASSED OFF AS HOW "THINGS SHOULD BE"....I'M NOT SO SURE WE HAVE ONE HECK OF A LOT TO TALK ABOUT ANYWAYS.(yet I damn well won't allow them to duck same in the first place).
Originally posted by: BusyRider"...of late, many things have been put up here, some are quite distance from what really went on and the rumors are spreading..."
The only rumour spreading right now, Mr. Chairman...is that a group here to before considered 'untouchable' here in Michigan orv politics...has now been caught with their hands in the cookie jar regarding Michigan orv funds. It has spread to the point where I was forced to get my information regarding this scandal out of state and the refusal to discuss same here is "par for the course" concerning those invested in same.
"....there are many things to be involved in that are more productive to some extent, than spending time on one, of many websites.. We as ORV people, have far better things to do with our time, than to punch a PC keyboard...."
Well punch away, Mr. Chairman....just don't forget that you have "far better things to do with your time".. when the going gets rough and the questions get a might uncomfortable. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
"...That time could be much better spent, e-mailing a Representative, Senator or MDNR personal stating your wishes...."
Are those the same e-mails I can't find from you or your board concerning the most important orv update plan we have ever considered? The DNR forced me to spend $140 for a copy of your board's commentary or even one major orv group's thoughts on this most important matter during the official commentary period.....yet when the money was sent and the documents arrived...<u>nobody</u> provided the DNR with any of the very same commentary your board and these groups were being pressed <u>beforehand</u> to provide!
"...Better yet, become directly involved and join a club, or form one in your own area...."Let's see, I joined the first major light 4-wheeled club whose leader sat on your board and wouldn't say a thing about what he did there...I then joined "the second coming" of these major clubs with a leader who sat on your "private council" and refused to reveal the same simple information.Did you ever think that some of us might just get tired of joining clubs who meet up with you and your gang....then suddenly turn "deaf-mute"?
"...Quite frankly, the future of our sport is in some serious jeopardy. I know that because I am the Chair of the DNR ORV Trail Advisory Board in Michigan...."
It's in serious jeopardy alright.....mainly because every enthusiast with any intelligence has recognized that there is absolutely no up-front discussions being held on any issue which confronts us....and little stomach for being associated with (quote/unquote) 'leaders' who inexplicably fight night and day to keep the light of day from being shone on them.
"...The absolute last thing we want to do, is have a division among us. We need to all be going in the same direction, the same page, as much as possible. Don't care if you 2, 4 or six wheels...."
This must be why my first light 4-wheeled leader insisted that we have nothing to do with the cyclists beyond a 'social level'....while the second (the one who lobbied to suddenly 'join' the cyclists as a 'sub-chapter') wanted me to shut my mouth regarding the cyclists declaring that the next trail built in Michigan...should be 100 miles of "motorcycle only"!!!
"...We are going to have areas of disagreement. That don't mean we have to be disagreeable...."
I used to love it when guys like "Dick" brought this one out of the bag years ago...yet the end result would always be...."yet we just won't allow you to discuss HOW we differ or even WHAT you 4-wheeled enthusiasts desire!Can we talk about 100 miles of the Tomahawk Trail being actually an atv trail...yet not maintained that way?Oh heck no.... we cyclists are lobbying the DNR to take even the pictures of your nasty little 4-wheeled machines off that trail's official map...thus giving the impression that you can't legally go down it and CERTAINLY tempering any discussion of actually widening it for the benefit of ALL its users!.
Hey you're "disagreeable" if you so much as question these things!
"...End result will be, we agree far more, than we disagree...."
Sure we'll 'agree'....yet the only 'caveat' Michigan motorcyclists have had for decades with that arms-length relationship...is that "<u>We</u> ride ALL the trails..and by nature of our holier-than-thou two wheel gift from <u>God</u>...you will elevate our machines (and ONLY ours) into a category which allows continued and permenant access to exclusive trails which we and only we will enjoy!!!".Would you like to hear the questions that these guys will never answer?How much trail mileage would you "demand" (a lot of you don't realize how arrogant many of these guys are) in a future system pressured by machines that look <u>nothing</u> like the fast dwindling number of your two-wheelers....and when will you stop brainwashing your young membership with the need to be kept "separate" from everybody else?With the follow-up question being: Why have I never a met a group of kids outside those brainwashed by their local motorcycle group...who seemed 'upset' at whatever you brought to ride that day....as long as they all rode on the same trail and did so together arriving at the same location?
Guys like Dick have been trying to twist this issue for years about "working together"....yet when <u>was</u> the last time you witnessed an 'atver' complain about motorcycles on the trail....while motorcyclists proudly bashing quads is almost a foregone conclusion from enthusiasts who <u>already</u> have their very own exclusive trails **<u>and also</u>** ride every motorized trail ever put down from the beginning of time!
I'll work together alright....I'll work together at putting a parallel trail right down beside "ours" (if you're lucky) and work together at turning your motorcycle trail into the type of multi-use variety that we <u>all</u> can enjoy. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
And the very second you start 'crying' about how you may not want to work "together" on either of those simple projects?....I will work "together" with my fellow state residents to reveal just what hypocrites you folks are when it comes to all this reverse psychology nonsense <u>in the first place</u>.I'll continue when I get time and not skip over a statement nor refuse to answer a question (you can do that when you have absolutely nothing to hide and absolutley no reason to <u>lie</u> about any of this....
The only rumour spreading right now, Mr. Chairman...is that a group here to before considered 'untouchable' here in Michigan orv politics...has now been caught with their hands in the cookie jar regarding Michigan orv funds. It has spread to the point where I was forced to get my information regarding this scandal out of state and the refusal to discuss same here is "par for the course" concerning those invested in same.
"....there are many things to be involved in that are more productive to some extent, than spending time on one, of many websites.. We as ORV people, have far better things to do with our time, than to punch a PC keyboard...."
Well punch away, Mr. Chairman....just don't forget that you have "far better things to do with your time".. when the going gets rough and the questions get a might uncomfortable. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
"...That time could be much better spent, e-mailing a Representative, Senator or MDNR personal stating your wishes...."
Are those the same e-mails I can't find from you or your board concerning the most important orv update plan we have ever considered? The DNR forced me to spend $140 for a copy of your board's commentary or even one major orv group's thoughts on this most important matter during the official commentary period.....yet when the money was sent and the documents arrived...<u>nobody</u> provided the DNR with any of the very same commentary your board and these groups were being pressed <u>beforehand</u> to provide!
"...Better yet, become directly involved and join a club, or form one in your own area...."Let's see, I joined the first major light 4-wheeled club whose leader sat on your board and wouldn't say a thing about what he did there...I then joined "the second coming" of these major clubs with a leader who sat on your "private council" and refused to reveal the same simple information.Did you ever think that some of us might just get tired of joining clubs who meet up with you and your gang....then suddenly turn "deaf-mute"?
"...Quite frankly, the future of our sport is in some serious jeopardy. I know that because I am the Chair of the DNR ORV Trail Advisory Board in Michigan...."
It's in serious jeopardy alright.....mainly because every enthusiast with any intelligence has recognized that there is absolutely no up-front discussions being held on any issue which confronts us....and little stomach for being associated with (quote/unquote) 'leaders' who inexplicably fight night and day to keep the light of day from being shone on them.
"...The absolute last thing we want to do, is have a division among us. We need to all be going in the same direction, the same page, as much as possible. Don't care if you 2, 4 or six wheels...."
This must be why my first light 4-wheeled leader insisted that we have nothing to do with the cyclists beyond a 'social level'....while the second (the one who lobbied to suddenly 'join' the cyclists as a 'sub-chapter') wanted me to shut my mouth regarding the cyclists declaring that the next trail built in Michigan...should be 100 miles of "motorcycle only"!!!
"...We are going to have areas of disagreement. That don't mean we have to be disagreeable...."
I used to love it when guys like "Dick" brought this one out of the bag years ago...yet the end result would always be...."yet we just won't allow you to discuss HOW we differ or even WHAT you 4-wheeled enthusiasts desire!Can we talk about 100 miles of the Tomahawk Trail being actually an atv trail...yet not maintained that way?Oh heck no.... we cyclists are lobbying the DNR to take even the pictures of your nasty little 4-wheeled machines off that trail's official map...thus giving the impression that you can't legally go down it and CERTAINLY tempering any discussion of actually widening it for the benefit of ALL its users!.
Hey you're "disagreeable" if you so much as question these things!
"...End result will be, we agree far more, than we disagree...."
Sure we'll 'agree'....yet the only 'caveat' Michigan motorcyclists have had for decades with that arms-length relationship...is that "<u>We</u> ride ALL the trails..and by nature of our holier-than-thou two wheel gift from <u>God</u>...you will elevate our machines (and ONLY ours) into a category which allows continued and permenant access to exclusive trails which we and only we will enjoy!!!".Would you like to hear the questions that these guys will never answer?How much trail mileage would you "demand" (a lot of you don't realize how arrogant many of these guys are) in a future system pressured by machines that look <u>nothing</u> like the fast dwindling number of your two-wheelers....and when will you stop brainwashing your young membership with the need to be kept "separate" from everybody else?With the follow-up question being: Why have I never a met a group of kids outside those brainwashed by their local motorcycle group...who seemed 'upset' at whatever you brought to ride that day....as long as they all rode on the same trail and did so together arriving at the same location?
Guys like Dick have been trying to twist this issue for years about "working together"....yet when <u>was</u> the last time you witnessed an 'atver' complain about motorcycles on the trail....while motorcyclists proudly bashing quads is almost a foregone conclusion from enthusiasts who <u>already</u> have their very own exclusive trails **<u>and also</u>** ride every motorized trail ever put down from the beginning of time!
I'll work together alright....I'll work together at putting a parallel trail right down beside "ours" (if you're lucky) and work together at turning your motorcycle trail into the type of multi-use variety that we <u>all</u> can enjoy. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]
And the very second you start 'crying' about how you may not want to work "together" on either of those simple projects?....I will work "together" with my fellow state residents to reveal just what hypocrites you folks are when it comes to all this reverse psychology nonsense <u>in the first place</u>.I'll continue when I get time and not skip over a statement nor refuse to answer a question (you can do that when you have absolutely nothing to hide and absolutley no reason to <u>lie</u> about any of this....
"...Don't care if you 2, 4 or six wheels. We are going to have areas of disagreement. That don't mean we have to be disagreeable. End result will be, we agree far more, than we disagree...."
Ask the Argo people or Representative Hildenbrand (the author whose recent bill was intentionally misrepresented) how "agreeable" Dick and the DNR have been in allowing utility vehicles on the rest of our system over the years.
Ask me how "disagreeable" and just plain ARROGANT these guys have been to anybody asking the simplest of questions over that same time period.
And finally, ask him just what has been publicly "agreed" upon concerning the future layout of our trail system and what will be used to properly maintain it when we are all dead and gone.
"...We all want more trail, we all want it to be better maintained, we all want it so we don't get lost and we hate a ticket....."
The thing Dick doesn't like to talk about here is that he's got people breathing down his neck that care about more trail alright...more trail for themselves and themselves only for cyclists who could care less if a trail is maintained by anything other than simple manual labor ...at a reimbursed rate equal to using heavy equipment.
And as far as getting 'lost' because of a lack of trail mileage? That has nothing to do with ticket writing and he knows it.
"...We want to be able to at least be able to get food, gasoline and a reasonable distance from either lodging or camping while enjoying this recreational activity. Better yet, we would like the priviledge of riding from our home, if we live in northern Michigan, or riding from our motel or campground to the trail....."
Sure, we want all of that, Dick....yet if your group is not willing to QUANTIFY THE DAMAGE WE HAVE NOW AND WHAT WE NEED DOLLAR-WISE TO NOT ONLY FIX IT BUT MAINTAIN SAME IN THE FUTURE...why do you think this community should allow you to expand it further into places like Detroit?
Is it because the lion's share of you live just outside the big-city suburbs....and that you could care LESS about unbelievably proposing the closure of "hopelessly ruined" trails...and laying "new ones" to ruin right down beside them?
You might lead a lot of these selfish city-slickers around with the promise of this and that....yet I will sit here and fight for the fair evaluatiuon of what we already have....striving for a sound estimation of fixing same and forecasting what we need to fix as time moves along (heck, we could use that $4 million up today in a second just on restoration projects for over 3,000 miles of trails....AND YOU KNOW IT).
"....Having been deeply involved in ORV activity for over two decades, both with motorcycles and ORV's. Own a 230 Honda, wife has a TT125 and we both enjoy our 400 MAX. Live one mile from the trailhead and it irks me to no end, we have to trailer everything but the Honda..."
Get over it, Dick; as you sound like these 'city boys' who want this big riding area built right out their back doors...while guys like me in southwest Michigan have come to ACCEPT the fact that we will travel to our less economically fortunate regions north of here to spread our money around as the snowmobiler's and every other tourist in the history of this state has ever done.
You can't ride out your back door?....well then show this state that you are responsible enough to fix what you have; not cry about needing over 750 more miles you don't even have the equipment to bust that out with....let alone to maintain the 3,000 you 'forgot' about.
"...Facing us in a big way is this "Healthy Forest Initiative". We have not seen but the very beginning of this yet. You had best get yourself educated on this and "prepare for the worst and hope for the best"....."
I'll deal with the treee huggers when I can show them that I can already properly maintain the land they cry about. If you think I'm going to defend a guy who thinks tackling the "Healthy Forest Initiative" is all about closing one trail down for "study" and then busting an entire new one out right beside it...it's no small wonder these people look at us in the manner they do.
What's next?...jumping into bed with these same tree huggers after they tear your rape of the land idea to shreds in debate...while about-face claiming that 'actually'...cyclists have "far less impact than those terrible 4-wheelers" on these same forests...to save your own *****?
Originally posted by: BusyRider
"...(now) Let me hit on some of this "distant from the truth stuff"..."
Since our long departed advisory board chairman has already ducked out of this conversation before it was finished....please allow me to illustrate why he did so:
".. ORV Advisory Board is just that, an Advisory Board. Has no power, zero, is appointed by the DNR....."
No power? ...Hmmm, how does supposedly being the primary CITIZEN'S advisory vehicle for hundred's of thousands of enthusiasts in this state...the people they are told to go <u>to</u> with their primary needs and wants....cause you to somehow DOWNPLAY even the very position itself? And as far as being "appointed by the DNR"...how could you believe that the first obstacle you would have to obviously overcome...is the possible perception within this community that you are not just another talking head flunky for these same people? Again, how could you possibly think that popping your head out from behind that curtain every 3 or 6 months with "we have no power" (<u>but this is the way its going to be, by gosh!!!</u>)...would ever endear you to anybody...let alone cause them to believe any kind of monitored accountability is taking place?
"...Serves as a means for us as users groups to convey our message to the DNR...."
When you stand up there as 'big cheese' at these advisory board meetings claiming that we just have to form a multi-user group council to accomplish the above....then angrily claim many months later that that this same council has "nothing to say" about the very update plan <u>YOUR</u> "OTHER" ADVISORY BOARD CAN'T EVEN PUBLISH A PUBLIC POSITION ON" (as they are charged to do in the very outline of their responsibilities)...why pray tell would this public believe they are properly represented regarding <u>anything</u>??? (especially when this community is rudely rebuked for so much as "daring" to ask who these people are or even what they believe in....let alone being <u>forced</u> to ridiculously argue for years about simple contact information that your counterpart board glady provides in the light of day?).
I mean, c'mon Dick!!! When I go to my representative on your council with simple questions such as the ones above...why would you think we view you as anything but arrogant ***** when said 'representative' flat out refuses to respond after <u>repeated</u> requests to do so....forcing the DNR to inform us that they know not a damn thing....about any of you!
Sorry folks, I've again run out of time and am sorry that each ridiculous statement here takes so much reading effort on your part. Hopefully you understand that this is the first time these people have come out and allowed any of their nonsense to be displayed/debated in public and I think it is a darn good exercise into how these AMA "legislative directors" play ball.
Another commentary regarding Busy Rider's "distant from the truth" claim:
Quote
Originally posted by: BusyRider:
"...Let me hit on some of this "distant from the truth stuff": ORV Advisory Board is just that, an Advisory Board. Has no power, zero, is appointed by the DNR....."
It's just amazing to me how these guys are cut and dry hand-picked by our DNR to represent us and serve as the one and only contact we have with them....yet they are the first (along with the DNR, mind you) to claim that they have no power and know absolutely nothing about what the other is doing.
The chairman hand-picks a council to supposedly represent "all" of us.
We, as light 4-wheeled users, have to figure out who is on it (their names are never published in even the DNR meeting minutes) yet when we finally find out who this guy is?....he shuts up like a clam.(pretty much similiar to the one and only representative we ever had on the board....and this guy's "mentor").
Meanwhile, we go to the DNR and ask about this huge 22,000 member representative organization....they first claim to never hear of them...then claim that they will get us their website...then claim that the website doesn't exist and that they are merely some "informal" group!!!
IF THE RESIDENTS HERE IN MICHIGAN CHOOSE TO "ALLOW" STATEMENTS LIKE THOSE ABOVE OR THOSE IN MY SIGNATURE TO BE PASSED OFF AS HOW "THINGS SHOULD BE"....I'M NOT SO SURE WE HAVE ONE HECK OF A LOT TO TALK ABOUT ANYWAYS.(yet I damn well won't allow them to duck same in the first place).