Actually,
I'd love to see the DNR not be able to select our entire ORV Advisory Board. ORV USERS should be able to elect who THEY feel would best benefit their cause,not the DNR.

And I plan on pushing this matter a little further in the future.

SUPERMAN?
he flew south for a few days to spend some time with POLLY POLLY PUREBREAD!

 

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

I posted back a few pages this: [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I still do not see where you were called any names yet, if you were please provide proof. I do not see anywhere where I called you any names or a name calling contest. Please correct your post. You like others here are twisting what I posted and taking it out of context to say what you want and not what it actually did. Please "Theotherguy" stop bashing me like others did in that other thread.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]


[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Are you claiming there is some conspiracy or what is it? I'm asking you to provide proof to your above claims. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

So now this is all your "theory"?

I did not get any answers to my questions back a few pages: I do agree with Muddy4life's post: It would be nice if we the ORV users had some input like Muddy4life posted.

I expect the same bashing and name calling from some of you as in the other thread I posted some questions in. Sometimes it seems it is easier for some of you to try to not answer the question and instead take it out on the one asking, when instead it would be easier for you to just answer it.

Please Have a Happy NEW YEAR. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

MOTORSPORTS [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

Mr. Motorsports,
I have no beef with you although for some reason you do with me. I don't know what your talking about in what questions you posed in another thread I haven't posted in any other thread, I have only posted here in this thread so that I may learn more about these issues. I would suggest if you have issues in a different thread you return to that thread and deal with those issues.

I'll ask that you look at the questions I posted on page 5 to Mr. Blackballed, Mr. Busyrider and Mr. 2trakr and see who gave me answers. In any and all responses from Mr. Blackballed to me I was called a Cycleist many times by Mr. Blackballed. He neither knows how many Cycles, ATV's or possibly 4x4's I own, so to call me names like a cycleist or an AMA lackey is what I am referring to. For all Mr. Blackballed knows, I may even be the one person who can help him with his struggles, what he has done by refusing to answer my questions was convince me he knows very little about the current ORV situation in Michigan. He has so far only made accusations. Mr. 2trakr and Mr. Busyrider on the other hand have proven, in this thread, that they actually do know how things work and what is currently going on in Michigan.

Your proof that your looking for can found at this post:

( Date Posted: Fri December 23, 2005 9:47 AM
Posted By: blackballed (Pro Rider)
Again, if you .cyclists want to come on in here as first-time posters/members of ATVConnection while trying to overwhelm/chage the subject matter...go right ahead.

Yet the truth is getting out here regarding the American Motorcycle Association and their sister "ATVA" chapter's involvement in the ongoing behind-the-scenes disposition of this historic 750 miles of trail here in Michigan...and we aren't about to let you whitewash it day after day.

Hey, give me time..I haven't even been able to get through your AMA Vice-President and Legislative Director's first post...let alone taking on every distortion of the truth which followed it.(Your hero's term was supposed to expire next Saturday TOG....did you really believe you could just come on in here and delay us from ever talking about it?...hmmm?).



I did not try to change the subject matter, I was trying to get answers to questions about what this thread is titled: What is really happening in Michigan. When I asked these questions I was confused as to who really knew what was going on. Mr Busyrider and Mr. 2trakr responded to my questions timely and without regard to my being a first time poster.

I had treated Mr. Blackballed with respect until he himself decided that it was not warrented. I have in fact treated everybody I have made contact with in this forum respectfully, including yourself.




Your own words were, (I did not see where you were called any names yet. Just send me a PM and I can take care of that for you.) was that not a invitation for a name calling contest or did I misunderstand your intentions.




posted by you,
(Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do have to ask some simple questions, now that I know about those strange dates that BB posted, how did Dick Ranney's 3year term change to a 4year term?
Who is Larry Harrington, and how did that Representing Public-At-Large get filled?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------)




Again I do not know how this happened, as I said before I too am curious. What I do know is these people are selected by the Director of the DNR. I don't even know how she got her position as Director of the DNR. In either case I still don't have control over it.



posted by you,
(I expect the same bashing and name calling from some of you as in the other thread I posted some questions in. Sometimes it seems it is easier for some of you to try to not answer the question and instead take it out on the one asking, when instead it would be easier for you to just answer it.)



I don't have the answers I have the questions (See page 5).


posted by you,
(Quote
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by: Theotherguy
Mr. Blackballed claims there is a huge conspiracy here in Michigan against him because he can't get answers to his questions. Then he plays the same game by not answering questions posed to him by "some lowley peon" like myself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you claiming there is some conspiracy or what is it? I'm asking you to provide proof to your above claims. )




Again see the post by Mr. Blackballed above, his claims are the American Motorcycle Association and their sister "ATVA" chapter's involvement in the ongoing behind-the-scenes disposition of this historic 750 miles of trail here in Michigan. My experience with the AMA is they don't really care about the trails in Michigan, they care more about the next style of streetbike, keeping Harley Davidson alive and riding without a helmet.



I feel your frustration in not getting your questions answered, but I had and have nothing to do with that, so again I ask that you reevaluate what your beef is with me, and if you still have one, great, have a good time with it but I'm not going to play.

 

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

HUH?

I guess you do the same as some of the others here. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

WOW, but you are twisting what I posted into what you want it to say and not what it really says.

You "Theotherguy" did exactly as I posted you would probably do.

Now you claim "I have a beef with you", sorry SIR but I did not say anything like that.

I did not call Theotherguy any names or a name calling contest as he claims.

I did not nor do have any "beef" with Theotherguy.

I'm sorry if you misread something I posted and you took it the wrong way, I did not mean to cause you any pain.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Posted by The otherguy: What is that? You are the one twisting what I posted and saying I posted something I never did. It seems SIR you are the one with the games.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Just please stop twisting what I post and saying I posted things I did not.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I expect the same bashing and name calling from some of you as in the other thread I posted some questions in. Sometimes it seems it is easier for some of you to try to not answer the question and instead take it out on the one asking, when instead it would be easier for you to just answer it.

Please Have a Happy NEW YEAR.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

MOTORSPORTS [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

 

I want to thank AtvConnection for allowing these facts to be published and applaud them for having the only discussion forum on the internet which recognizes the value of this category. Saying that, this will be my last post anywhere concerning orv issues and certainly the last effort I will ever make in my lifetime to 'get involved' in motorized recreation.

When your leaders in any community take to:
....forming secret councils representing tens of thousands of people..
....mutually agreeing to cancel public meetings; then blaming 'the government' that there was absolutely no possible way in which to simply hold one themselves for the benefit of citizens <u>they</u> supposedly represent...
....responding to the public <u>only</u> in e-mail form; yet continually denying the right to simply quote from same...
....allowing the state to not only take away their right to properly recorded meeting minutes while cutting the opportunity to meet with them almost in half...but (again) allowing same to draft the summary of those same meetings <u>without</u> commentary (funny how nothing I've taken the time to say over the years has ever reached this public's ears if it had anything to do with anybody sitting at that front table)...
...refusing to allow the public opportunity for simple timed question and answer sessions (properly recorded) at the end of their "we're deciding the fate of the free world here" meetings; thus allowing the public to get an "official" position from "somebody" on at least one topic every 3 to 6 months...
...allowing the state to extend their terms on a board <u>without comment from anyone;</u> while full well knowing that the state has a dismal record of timely appointing these same positions; leading even to an absence of quorum for the meeting itself...
....allowing the state to "study" its "procedure" for listing board member's contact info on their web site for years...while other advisory board members are easily accessible ON the web while acting polite/helpful when you call...and have been for <u>years</u>...

...all of this and so much more that it would literally take me hours to explain here...have caused me to abandon our first/only/ever size-friendly orv training program here in southwestern Michigan (thank you, Muddy) and go back to concentrating on my first love...my family and the man upstairs.

Thanks again to all of you that have supported my efforts over the years to simply allow the public to have their say in something <u>more</u> than a prepared and non-responded to manner every 3 or 6 months...and more importantly, supported the denial of this ridiculous notion that orv representation in any state should be led as my signature indicates below (I was but <u>one person</u> with absolutely no backing...is it smarter to let that one person simply have his say....or cause somebody with absolutely no power to begin with effectively pull the curtain back on the reputation of an entire national organization?).

In any case, this is the last you will hear from me; and I say this while certainly wishing each and every one of you a prosperous and happy new year.(and remember now...future for profit <U>sustainable</U> privatized trail maintenance programs coupled with 60" parallel multi-use trails...are not dirty words! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ).

God Bless you all and good luck in the future both in/outside of these issues,

John

 

The quote from BB below,best defines what most thought of his ORV raves/antics.

(I was but one person with absolutely no backing]

 

Hope you dont mean that John, Certainly this sport needs many more like you, rather than the Blind leading the blind that inundates so many ORV groups and organizations. It's nice to see someone with the cahoonas to question what many take as a given. There are far to many enthusiasts who feel as though a 3 minute speech in front of a board is all they are obligated by their concious to do.
Good Luck.

 

First, affective Sunday, 1-1-06. The townships of Plainfield, Tawas and Baldwin, in Iosco County, Michigan are are open to ORV use on "the far right of the roadway", with a speed limit of 20 MPH. Youths, ages 12 through 15 may ride under the "visual supervision" of their parent. Copies of the ordinance are available from each township office and it is suggested you fully understand before riding.
Over the next 3 months, action is expected by 7 other townships within the county, regarding the ordinance.
We can now ride from Oscoda, through South Branch and on into Oscoda County where similar additional ORV riding opportunites are being considered. If favorable results happen there, we are not far from being able to begin our ride in either Ogemaw or Iosco county's, and get as far north as Cheboygan county by a mix of trail and roadway.

Now, to respond to some of the posts here over the past several weeks, of which, I orginated.

SECRET COUNCIL: If one wants to call getting every major ORV group in Michigan together and working as a group and solve as many of the problems as possible. so be it.

CANCELLING MEETINGS: Cost is about two grand for each meeting by the time we pay room rent, staff time, travel and all other things associated. The one meeting that was cancelled, and I did play a part in that, there was simply no agenda items until the Draft Plan became available. I see no reason to call a meeting, for the sake of calling a meeting and spending two grand. Meetings across the Board for Advisory Boards have been reduced as a cost cutting measure. Ours went from six a year, to four and with new issues before us, we can expect those meetings to be quite lengthy.

MEETING MINUTES: I see no differance in our minutes than any other public meeting, be it a township board or county commissioners. There are only minor corrections, if any, upon review.

BOARD: Quoted from a memorandum dated March 12, 2002 from the Natrual Resources Commission;
"The advisory committee shall assist the department in developing criteria for grants, nominate forest roads to be included as ORV routes, nominate forest trails, assist the department in promulgating rules, and assist the department in developing the plan required by section 81123. The advisory committee shall advise the department on recommendations made by ORV users of forest trails, roads, and areas that should be designated for ORV use. The advisory committee shall consist of 6 members appointed by the director. Three of the members shall represent ORV trail users and dealers. Two members shall represent natural resources, conservation, or environmental groups. One member shall represent law enforcement who shall be a county sheriff. At least 1 member shall be from the Upper Peninsula of this state. Members shall be appointed for terms of 3 years except that of members first appointed, 1 member from each group and the member representing law enforcement shall be appointed for 3 years and the balance of the members shall be appointed for 2 years. The committee shall meet at least once each year."

This memorandum was adopted by the DNR because, former Governor Engler abolished all Advisory Committee's shortly before he left office. We have the best compliance to the directive at the moment since my involvement with the Board, other than, there is no dealer representative. Represented are two from conservation groups, one at large, one from enforcement and three ORV folks. Two have both, motorcycles and atvs, all three, with decades of riding experiance. My first appointment was for 3 years, with the term expiring on 12-31-05. I did send in a letter wishing to be re-appointed without any stipulation as for the length, was given a one year term along with another member. Reason for this I was told, to avoid having a majority of terms expiring at one time and having a large groups on new members at one time. Made sense to me, if at the end of 06, I wish to continue to serve, will have to submit another letter.

As for not releasing names of contacts, associates or organizations who do help us out, that would be "political suicide". Took years to develope those "friends and allies" and their trust. I shall do everthing in my power, for the benefit of the sport, to maintain their trust and support.

As users of ORV's in Michigan, we are at a major turning point, that will determine the use of such vehicles for decades to come. While we are in a major growth period, so are other users of public lands, many other user groups are making demands of public lands, similar to ours. MDNR has a tough job of balancing wishes of everyone, while at the same time, fullfilling their responsibility of being stewards of the land.

Everyone of us play an important part in being responsible stewards of those lands while exercising our right to use to use use the land for ORV use.

The ORV Board meets four times annually, with a pre-written and published agenda. Anyone can speak for 3 minutes by simply filling out a card, or formally request within two weeks prior to the meeting and recieve a 5 minute comment period. As you may have noted in the memorandum, the Board only "assist" and make "recommendation" to the Department.

For you to be involved, be informed, know your material to be accurate, you must be based on true fact. Getting into a club is a good start, go to the ORV Advisory Board meetings and understand the process. Get to know your legislators, this is a campaign year and they will be in your area, ask them questions about their support of ORV issues. Most important, if you see a notice from an organization such as CCC, ATV Off-Road, SORVA or AMA-D14 asking for you to send an e-mail to Lansing, do it. The most powerfull thing in Lansing is a personal letter from a voter. But your letter had better have it right, simply brief and to the point.

If you have any questions, and I saw many here and hope several have been answered, feel free to contact me. I have no problem answering any legitimate question. I go by BusyRider for a reason, I drove over 7,000 miles in 05 to 50 plus meetings. Do not expect 06 to be any differant. Very proud of what WE have accomplished in 05 and hope we have even greater sucess in 06. If WE all work together, We can and will, accomplish more opportunities for ALL ORV users.

 

KTMGUY,
Even one of BB is ONE too many in this sport. He has'nt un-covered ANYTHING and is a total EMBARRASSMENT to every man/women who has fought there *** of to get what we do have today.. His misrepresentation of the FACTS have lead to his own disembarkment from those that lead our sport in Michigan.

We have MANY ORV issues in the State of Michigan that need addressing.There are professional ways in which to conduct yourself in public with regard to our sport,he has NOT learned this yet.

The folks in here that BB called out are hard working folks,they been around this sport ALOT longer than BBs short 5 year stint and understand HOW to handle situations in a meaningful manner.One thing even I've come to learn thru TIME is that when things DONT go the way you think they should in this sport, there is usually an ALTERNATIVE plan with the RIGHT troops in order.

It was BB that CHOSE to carve his own path of destruction,thus leaving him as the Lone Ranger along with his OWN perception of the issues and his OWN way of handling them. There are those of us IN HERE that have asked BB exactly how we ORVers are ANY better 5 YEARS later,because of HIS contributions to the sport? And he has NEVER,even so much as ONE time,ever been able to supply and answer to that question.It appears very easy for someone like KTM who appears to be siding with BB here, to applaud BB for bringing forth one sided issues.I dont blame KTM for his beliefs,as he is an OUTSIDER [not even from Michigan] looking inside. Many others in here,have spelled out WHY we are better off today because of our contributions to the sport.BB cant think of even ONE reason.I ask KTM to concider that BEFORE he appaulds BB efforts any further.

With the new year coming,I'd like to personally thank BB for leaving and inform him that he wont be missed.The ORV community here in Michigan has ALOT of work to do this upcoming year, and its going to be a real pleasure doing it without anymore obstacles than we allready have.

 

Muddy, I have read BB's Posts on not just this forum. I dont side with anyone on these forums, however I CAREFULLY read through 13 pages of questions and comments by everyone on here, then asked BB to clarify his stance on issues I didnt quite understand his way of thinking on, after he did that, I tend to agree with his version and concerns. However dont worry, as You stated I'm an outsider and dont reside in Michigan. However Im always looking for Input and ideas on How to contribute best to area ORV clubs and Regulations, Which I stated in my first post.