There is no secrecy with the ORV Advisory Board. Sure, Stears can't get the arguement he wants when he sends threatening letters to the ORV-AB members and so he accuses them of hiding, but every other person who makes contact with the ORV-AB has and does get the recognition that is entitled to all ORVers. Stears has simply worn out his welcome with all of them, at least that's the way I see it.

At the first meeting with the ORV-AB I ever attended, I was able to fill out a "speaking card" and was allocated the 3 minutes as per the rules; had I pre-registered with the DNR I would have been allocated 5 minutes of time; this is the same as the other 15-20 individuals that stood up and gave input at the last meeting.

The DNR opted to not have one of the meetings with the excuse that there were no pressing issues more important than that of the ORV Plan Update and they were not ready to discuss the ORV Plan Update as they were still working on it. The ORV-AB was not in favor of skipping a meeting, nor was the general public. The DNR runs the meetings of the ORV-AB and has the final say on when and where the meetings take place.

Privatized trail maintenance is already at hand. It's a competitive bid process from multiple [private and public] organizations - the Government does not handle the trail maintenance itself.

 

Did I miss something here?

Back on page 5, I asked Mr. Blackballed to comment and answer some questions and I was told by Mr. Blackballed that he would respond to each post as he got to them. Now a recent post comes in and Mr Blackballed feels obligated to answer this post immediatly. What happened to your rules of engagement of answering each comment as you came to them in due time?

 

2Trakkr trying to convince KTMguy that he's "confused"...

"...There is no secrecy <u>with the ORV Advisory Board</u>...."

I just get a kick out of the way these guys try to bamboozle Dragginbutt and others with their misdirection.
The man was referring to the same organization that is in my signature below...the same organization that killed the widening bill for "all of us"... and (frankly) the same organization that not a one of you has been willing to discuss "candidly" as to why its members feel the need to put a sheet over their heads.

"...(he) can't get the arguement he wants when he sends threatening letters to the ORV-AB members..."

Wellllll golly be!....Are you saying that word of even so much as one of the several letters I've sent to these new board members asking to comment on any of this....has reached your ears and not mine?
Threatening?...well I suppose if you were just as scared as these atvers to reveal who their "super-secret" members of this Michigan Motorized Recreation Council are....maybe you're just as scared to comment on why the chairman of your board got a "super-secret" term extension!
I just simply asked these new board members that if the DNR were to "quietly" extend their terms when the time came for the public's ability to apply for them (as the DNR did with their chairman)...would they kindly 'please and thank' you inform "the peon public" they serve.....unlike the chairman failed to do.

"...(he) has simply worn out his welcome with all of them, at least that's the way I see it...."

Wellll... you know, young Jeremy....if I ever received even so much as a "note" back from any one of them, current or newly installed (one did call saying he was 'busy' and never called back) since the beginning of November or even years ago...I'd say that I was 'welcome' in the first place. Pretty hard to wear out a relationship that is not only hoping to be cemented by answering simple correspondence when volunteering to do so...but which never begins in the first place (uhhh, just 'think' about it, my friend...[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ).

"...At the first meeting with the ORV-AB I ever attended, I was able to fill out a "speaking card" and was allocated the 3 minutes as per the rules; had I pre-registered with the DNR I would have been allocated 5 minutes of time; this is the same as the other 15-20 individuals that stood up and gave input at the last meeting...."

Again, what's your point, Jeremy?
I've got 4 DNR officials in the room who received my request for more speaking time...one sitting right next to the guy who claimed to have never 'received' it (later proved to be false)...yet I'm still standing there dealing with some wide-eyed chairman who finally believes this is his 'big chance'...and who slams the gavel down rudely before my 5 minutes are up!.
I mean we all realize you guys like to play "super secret agent man" in the MMRC....but are the facts I'm distributing in this short 5 minutes of speaking time after 6 months of waiting to stand up and say "something"....that damaging to the "the fate of the free world is in our hands" fantasy you all have created here? (I mean, c'mon guys..put the 'fazers' down and have a drink for gosh sakes! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ).

"...The DNR opted to not have one of the meetings with the excuse that there were no pressing issues more important than that of the ORV Plan Update and they were not ready to discuss the ORV Plan Update as they were still working on it. The ORV-AB was not in favor of skipping a meeting, nor was the general public....."

That is flat out NOT the truth and don't even come on in here and even try to spread it.
This was a "mutual decision" confirmed by the DNR/others and is no more ridiculous than saying the DNR took away our official stenographer...yet the orv community has 'no idea' as to how we would ever get one <u>back</u>.
What's next, Mr. History?...something about how these two peas in a pod have never cancelled meetings like this BEFORE?
I could go on and on, but sorry Jeremy....you motorcyclists are going to have to do a lot better than THAT in 'revisionist history' when going up against the very man who questioned all of this b.s. from day one.....and if you can't get anybody in here who can do any better? (why don't you send 'ol 'Dick' in here to argue about how 'hard' he fought to actually 'hold' that meeting whether the DNR was there or not) ...then for God's sake quit embarassing yourself trying.

"...The DNR runs the meetings of the ORV-AB and has the final say on when and where the meetings take place....."

Again, if there isn't anything more sickening than a bunch of atvers hiding behind some motorcyclists....it is an orv community allowing the DNR to dictate when, where and if they actually meet.
Sorry, but you guys are so damn pathetic; I'm not so sure I can keep 'up' with this thread anymore (it's outright embarrasing...I'm tellin' ya).

 

No, you are suggesting he's confused and adding more fodder at the same time. I'll give KTMguy70 credit that he knows what he's talking about.
In which you are referring to the MMRC, yet KTMguy70 clearly was referring to the ORV-AB as they are the group (you are jumping up & down about) that reduced it's yearly meetings, as quoted below:
Perhaps you are suggesting he blurred the lines between the ORV-AB and the MMRC. I will let him clarify it, if such is necessary.

I have seen no letters, nor have any been read to me. I have heard rumor of such communications from you; I believe you have personally spoken of the same on this board.
Using such phrases as "the peon public" while at the same time demanding information is certainly not the smoothest approach.

I think my point was obvious, but here it is in long from:
NOBODY else has ever encountered the same "problems" you encounter. Every single person at the last ORV-AB was able to get on the list to speak and was given their allocated time. You are the only person to have such problems and it apparently ties back to all of the other "problems" you find, all of which appear to be created by _you_. Again, plenty of people were able to speak their mind at the last public meeting from Cycle riders to ATVers to the full size and snowmobile crowd. Nobody else came away from that meeting crying about "more speaking time". Why is it that you are SO unique in this scenario? Can't be what you claim to ride as at least one other RUV rider was able to speak their mind at the last ORV-AB meeting. Can't be your ethnic background, physical fitness, gender or age as a great varied group of people had "their turn" at the meeting.

You obviously have evidence to the contrary. Please provide it.

 

I'd hate to think of where this State would be without the expertise and verteran ORV leadership of Bill Chapin,Dick Reeney,Jeramey,RJ,and a few other's that come into my mind?It's tough enough fighting the DNR and the Forest service,let alone finding those that have a history of knowledge in this field.Im proud to know all 4 of them.

If not for their efforts,we would have no shoulders of county roadways in the Lower Pennisula to ride.We would have the same screwed-up ORV safety education classes that the DNR invented overnight.We would have no MMRC [opps--thats a SECRET] we would have LESS trail,and the list DONT stop there..

With all this finger pointing being directed at you guys from BB,I just wanted to take a second BEFORE the new year and thank you Red-headed stepchild,dirt bike riding,single use,jumping into bed with the DNR,tooth pick hanging from the side of your mouth,arrogant ???,non-profit robbers, for helping us KEEP what we have in Michigan.

I think what would make BB stop all this is to turn all the 3100 miles of ORV trail into a multi-use super ORV highway that could fit everything from a 50cc Dirtbike to a Super Monster Mud truck.Than we would be able to turn ALL the ORV trails over to the Road Commission for maintainance and forget the non-profits.

Yah,its bedtime.

 

Bill - thanks for _your_ efforts as well.

Happy new year! Perhaps we'll see a new year's resolution from somebody here that is actually positive for the ORV community...

 

I think anyone coming on here with less than 30 posts, were led on here by others as a method to intimidate and supress opposition.

BB, I think your signature at the bottom of your page says it all. I would hate to have folks like that in charge of important issues.
These people should be accesible, not only in public meetings, but through telephone and letter correspondence. And I see nothing wrong with requesting that or holding folks to the fire for failing to provide it. After all, they represent YOUR interest.
If Meetings are being shoved aside for one group, while other groups, such as snowmobilers, etc are holding MORE frequent meetings, then it would seem that there is indeed prejudice.

 

[quote]
Originally posted by: 2TrakR
"...The ORV-AB was not in favor of skipping a meeting, nor was the general public....
You obviously have evidence to the contrary. <u>Please provide it</u>...."

I simply phoned the DNR (just like any other citizen first observing this cancellation on their website) and asked just why the public's right to meet with both them <u>and</u> "our" orv advisory board was suspended for 6 months.

I mean, c'mon Jeremy!....is this what you've been reduced to arguing about? Demanding evidence concerning a matter that the very person who started this thread....was up to his eyeballs in?

What would you like us to do?...get some kind of "official" statement from the DNR stating that American Motorcycle Association Vice-President/Legislative District 14....argued like all holy heck regarding this half-year of no word from anybody on Michigan orv issues.....and (by god) demanded that this meeting actually be held???
Question....if this was the case and if you were so damn 'broken up' about the general public's "rights" being trampled here....why didn't you or he <u>convene your own damn meeting of the orv community</u> (<u>without</u> the DNR)... just like I was forced to demand every single <u>day</u> of the 6 months we never saw <u>a single <u>one</u> of you</u>???

Again, Jeremy...if you're the best "spinmeister" these guys have got....I'm beginning to see a little light in the tunnel regarding folks in this orv community FINALLY observing just <u>how</u> you guys operate and why.

2Trakkr's response to KTMguy70 simply observing that the privitization of trail maintenance simply "makes sense":
"...Privatized trail maintenance is <u>already</u> <u>at hand(!)</u>. It's a <u>competitive</u> bid process from <u>multiple</u> [private and public] organizations - the Government does not handle the trail maintenance itself..."

Again, it is simply amazing to me regarding not only how these guys overtly attempt to spin these issues faster than a Clinton spokesperson discussing dress stains....yet how <u>dumb</u> they truly believe the rest of us to be! (see KTMguy's earlier question regarding our "super-secret MMRC" and how this issue got spun/deflected to an entirely different subject...which unfortunately turned out to be an advisory board who wouldn't meet with the public they served for a period of 6 months).
Tell me something, Jeremy....do you actually believe that KTMguy (or anyone else up here for that matter) will ALLOW you to spin the term "privitization" to actually mean private and public "organizations" competing for trail work in this conversation(?)...AND <u>NOT</u> THE **FOR PROFIT** ENTITIES THAT ARE CURRENTLY NOW <u>BANNED</u> HERE IN MICHIGAN FROM BIDDING ON THOSE SAME PROJECTS?

Does anybody now see why it takes this <u>long</u> to get through even half of ONE of these guy's posts? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

 

Ah, so now it was the DNR who had "nothing to talk about" and not the ORV-AB. Let's get your stories straight. Was it the ORV-AB who cancelled the meetings or the DNR?

Yet you never answered to that, only continue to spin it yet in another post. You claim the ORV-AB hides the identities of those on the Board and that they refuse to answer your questions. Is the ORV-AB the secret organization referred to or is the MMRC the group you claim to be secret?
Do you know ANYONE else who makes similar claims to their secrecy?
Do you know ANYONE else who claims their time was not given for speaking at one of these ORV-AB meetings?


I know you want privatization to mean for-profit, but it doesn't:
"The conversion of a government-owned enterprise to private ownership."
You are purposely using similar words and phrases to trick others into believing there is some large conspiracy, instead of sticking to reality.
The DNR (the government here) does not own or operate the actual trail maintenance. They contract it out to private and public organizations, one of the stipulations in the contract is that these groups must be listed as non-profit.

Thus trail maintenance is already privatized, but it's money is not currently available to for-profit entities. It is a competitive bid process and does force the use of best technologies.
It's certainly not a perfect program and the ORV Plan Update aims to improve it in several areas.

 

I see now, because I chose to sit back and watch for a while before making a comment or ask questions then that means I should be disregarded because.

A. I have less than 30 posts

B. Because I reside in Michigan and not a different state.



I did not place my personal information on here on purpose because I don't need to be harrassed at home for my opinion and this forum doesn't require your personal information to participate. In this forum I have already seen threats from Mr BlackBalled's supporters to kick peoples a$$ and one person wanted me to get into a name calling contest.

Mr. Blackballed claims there is a huge conspiracy here in Michigan against him because he can't get answers to his questions. Then he plays the same game by not answering questions posed to him by "some lowley peon" like myself.

I do not know why the term was extended for the ORV Advisory Board Chair, I too would like to find that answer. My theory is this, Mr Busyrider may know information that may not be favored by the DNR. Or in other words keep your friends close and your enemies even closer. This may also be why Mr. Blackballed has to file for FOI to get information, because he is not a threat and Mr. Busyrider is. What I do know is that the DNR didn't require my input into who was placed on the Advisory Board previously, and they don't require my input now. What I am glad about is there is an Advisory Board, because the previous Governor of Michigan abolished all advisory boards in Michigan.


By the way, what ever happened to Mr. Superman1? Haven't heard from our lawyer friend in a while.